Another Looking For New Monitors Thread, looking for ideas..

[Lost to the Void]

If anyone was interested in what ive blown my money on, it can be found here:
http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specs ... -Sheet.pdf

I've had similar type of column speaker set(focal , jbl , etc ) for years but always kept it in my living room ...
I was not aware this type of speaker+amp was used for studio/mastering...

There are some studios using klipsch reference 2 series top of the line stuff, but not just any old floor standing speakers. Let's be clear, there is hifi, and there is high end\audiophile hifi.
I would say most dedicated mastering studios go with hi end hifi.
Dual use studios tend to have studio mains.
Otherwise you will find all manner of hi end hifi in mastering studios.
B&W 802 Diamonds are quite common, for example.
But you see Tyler Acoustics, Technics, Wilson Watt, Duntech, Emotiva, Dunlavy, Lipinksi, Polk, Myro, Grimm Audio

I could go on...

Inside a whole post about it when I built my mastering studio.
Basically I have always had a dual use studio, but I decided to step up my game and build a dedicated mastering room when we bought a new property.
I spoke to loads of mastering engineers for advice. And pretty much everyone was recommending high end audiophile hifi for mastering.
So I checked stuff out, went to loads of showrooms, got some stuff on trial.... This was all moved the process of about a year..
A lot of guys in the states were telling me about goldenear, but they weren't available here at the time so i went to an audio show in Germany to hear them, and well, that's when I made my decision. Waited for a distributer to get them hear, trialled them with my 2 other choices, went for them. Became the first studio in UK to use them. (Guy who designed them is a legend in speaker need circles and founded some of the most respected audio companies).
It's during that time I realised how much the audiophile side of hifi had advanced.

[TechnoDude]

KH310 or Focal Twins and if you can afford it the Barefoots.

[Markus Wolf]

Ive dropped the Klipsch Towers for now. Looks like allot of people say they arent that neutral regardless of what Klipsch says. Although I still kind of liked them. I have found the SVS Prime Towers which are a 3.5 way speaker tower. Almost every review and Ive read over 10 of them from independents and other purchasers have referred to them as powerful, transparent, neutral and generally revealing. One gentleman basically said they sound like what you feed them with more or less and other factors aside. Ive seen some measurement graphs not from the actual company but an independent reviewer and they are indeed somewhat flat. Not coloured are words i like so here we go. I guess its expected to go through many different models until you hit on the right one. Im not expecting many people here to have heard about these but thought I would keep yall in the loop Fequency response was like 30hz to 20khz or so.

cheers boys

[Lost to the Void]

In then price range you are looking at, I'm not sure you are going to get something good enough.
Why not look at the used audiophile market. Audiophiles really look after their gear and because they are always looking for the "perfect" sound, they buy and sell quite a lot.
I just had a look on eBay in your price range and saw some awesome Avalons, spendor, Linn, Kef, ATC, B&W. All from a higher spec than the stuff you are looking at. Much more reference stuff in your price range.

Stretch the budget to a grand and you can get some insanely good high end hifi used. I just had a look at the 1000 pound mark for used hifi floor standers and I saw some crazy good deals. It's actually making me think about getting a set for the production studio.

[Lost to the Void]

I saw some b&w cm9s and Kef r500 for 800 quid. Great deal, both very good speakers, easily outperform active nearfields in the same price range by a mile.

[Resin]

An audiophiles `neutral` can be very different from an engineers one. Their perspective is very different, so I think you are going to have a very hard time, getting the speakers you are looking for by reading audiophile reviews.
If you really wanna get a pair of floor stands, than I’d say your best bet is to check out what mastering engineers like to use. There is a very small but very good mastering forum somewhere, with very serious heads… unfortunately I forgot its name and don’t really know if its still active, but maybe someone else knows which forum I’m talking about.

[Resin]

It's actually making me think about getting a set for the production studio.

As an addition or for your main system? I can't stand editing on mains, or anything that is far away. Thats why I'm asking/wondering.

[Lost to the Void]

An audiophiles `neutral` can be very different from an engineers one. Their perspective is very different, so I think you are going to have a very hard time, getting the speakers you are looking for by reading audiophile reviews.
If you really wanna get a pair of floor stands, than I’d say your best bet is to check out what mastering engineers like to use. There is a very small but very good mastering forum somewhere, with very serious heads… unfortunately I forgot its name and don’t really know if its still active, but maybe someone else knows which forum I’m talking about.

Neutral is neutral mate.
Of course you have to be very careful reading ANY speaker review from a magazine etc, or compare sources for consensus at then very least. But the aims of audiophile speakers are the same as studio, flat reference response (some speaker designers design for both, quite often the difference is that as soon as they write studio on something, they up the price by 25%).
Which is what I did when I built the new mastering studio, spoke to loads of engineers, did a load of research, tested a load of shit.

The thing is, mastering engineers are as particular as (non idiotic) audiophiles.
Which is why there is a vast array of hi end hifi that engineers swear too and use in their mastering rooms.
Once your ears get to that level you do start to recognise the bias of your own ear canals and so you are often looking for a reference main that matches your ears (and room, of course).

Some studio monitors are pretty coloured too, despite the manufacturers claims.

It's all about testing stuff out.

I used to be weirded out by working in mains, but it is about familiarity.
Since I have been working on them all day every day (mastering) and occasionally mixing on them, I am more in to the nodes of producing on them. I really miss having that utter accuracy in the lowest 2 octaves that you just can't have with nearfields.

[Markus Wolf]

Havent listened to them yet but I found a pair of B&W 683 S2's. Good reviews. I would be buying them second hand. But just researching. There are a few decent looking models used.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.net/Speakers/ ... s/683.html

[Lost to the Void]

Again your not talking about the audiophile market of hifi.(in reply to resin who's post has disappeared)
Just repeating the very very old cliche that hifi speakers are hyped and "pro audio" are not, which simply isn't the case, especially these days as more and more pro audio companies are starting to use hype bullshit to sell their products.
Bookshelf speakers are always a compromise of sorts anyway.
And yes, class D can be fine, I have some class D in the mastering room.
But it isn't cheap or tiny like a lot of the shit they cram in to the little space inside of your average mid range active nearfields, and let's not getting to crossover quality and heatsinks etc
Which is why I say, in some cases they are literally using gainclones as amplification.
It really is a little shocking, but it has been caused by a price war in pro audio land.

I can only speak from my experience, have hi end audiophile hifi in my mastering room and I am now doing the best work In have ever done.
My experience going to demos and shows over a year looking for mastering speakers showed me that the world of hifi has changed dramatically. The aims of most decent companies are those of audiophile standards of transparency, the competition and larger market place means development cycles and price are more competitive.
Due to this experience when I decided to change the nearfields in my production room this year I decided to investigate the hifi world again. Mainly because I wanted passive monitors so I could use much better amplification and pro audio land no longer modders much in the way of passive monitors.
After a lot more chatting directly with technicians at various companies and then getting stuff to test, I ended up with some hi end hifi speakers to use as nearfields in the production studio. I am now doing some more the best mixes I have probably ever done, making some quite experimental and difficult to mix music that is really pushing my skills. Yet I take them in to the mastering room and they translate exceptionally well. My new production room is also, yet to be acoustically treated.
So I'm doing better mixes, in an untreated room, on hifi speakers than I was on very good (jbl lsr 4326 and 4312) monitors in a treated room. Prior to those monitors I have owned a few other decent monitors from dynaudio, Adam....
So I can only speak from experience and my experience for me has been awesome, and the proof is in the pudding.

I'm not saying monitor choices are easy to make. You get better at it with more experience. But I am saying if you have some knowledge and experience you can get some fantastic quality monitoring in hifi land without paying through the nose in pro audio to get the equivalent quality.

[Lost to the Void]

Havent listened to them yet but I found a pair of B&W 683 S2's. Good reviews. I would be buying them second hand. But just researching. There are a few decent looking models used.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.net/Speakers/ ... s/683.html

I'm not that familiar with those monitors but I just checked a bunch of frequencies response charts and water fall plots and if you take them all in I wouldn't say these particular speakers are all that flat.

Where are you and what is your budget? I'll take a look and see what you have available in your area.

[Markus Wolf]

Im currently living in toronto. My Budget is $2000 CDN. I spoke with fellow at a well known hifi store today. I told him what I want to do and whta im looking for mainly for monitoring and production. I mentioned a floor standing speaker that goes below 40hz, is neutral and transparent with good imaging. He recommended two one was Sonist Recital 3 and the Triton 7's. Im going to go in hopefully early next week and give it a listen. But I wont be suprised if I dont buy right away. Im really trying to make this my last speaker purchase for a long time. If you have any other suggestions I dont mind And thanks to everybody who has chimed in with their advice and recommendations.

cheers

[Lost to the Void]

Right, had a look to see what`s going in your area.

Found an amazing deal from a place in toronto that sells hifi and stocks some good hi grade used too.
They have a set of Polk Audio LSI15`s for 700 bucks.
That`s a really nuts price on a very very reputable set of speakers.
Known to be very neutral, I think they won some awards when they came out, they were designed by Sandy Gross (who started Polk and went on to form Goldenear).
22hz-27k (I think +/- 1db is around 30hz)

That place also stocks some great used amps too. Worth going there and checking the Polks, you could master on those fuckers.
https://www.planetofsoundonline.com/col ... g-speakers

Check this place too, they are closing down (in toronto) and liquidating stock, you might get a bargain http://audiooasis.com/

Also found these boxed new PSB Imagine X2T in Toronto, great speakers.
Worth checking out what else this store has
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2016-BrandNewSea ... SwDNdVpvIh

[Markus Wolf]

Right, had a look to see what`s going in your area.

Found an amazing deal from a place in toronto that sells hifi and stocks some good hi grade used too.
They have a set of Polk Audio LSI15`s for 700 bucks.
That`s a really nuts price on a very very reputable set of speakers.
Known to be very neutral, I think they won some awards when they came out, they were designed by Sandy Gross (who started Polk and went on to form Goldenear).
22hz-27k (I think +/- 1db is around 30hz)

That place also stocks some great used amps too. Worth going there and checking the Polks, you could master on those fuckers.
https://www.planetofsoundonline.com/col ... g-speakers

Check this place too, they are closing down (in toronto) and liquidating stock, you might get a bargain http://audiooasis.com/

Also found these boxed new PSB Imagine X2T in Toronto, great speakers.
Worth checking out what else this store has
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2016-BrandNewSea ... SwDNdVpvIh

Ok Thanks!!! The polks have to be picked up and they are 4 hours away But the X2T's look interesting im going to look into them. Sorry but you havent mentioned anything about my suggestion of the Goldenear Triton 7's.... What do you thinks about them? So far reviews are neutral, transparent and good bass extension. X2T's look very interesting.

[Lost to the Void]

Whilst I swear by and use Goldenear in my mastering room. I wouldn't recommend the T7s if you want full range. They are the lowest in the Triton range and don't actually have any sub drivers so allthough the mids and highs will be tight as fuck the lows will be dependent on cabinet size etc, so they might be a bit woolly and slow in the lows. The next one up in the range would be a better bet.

[Markus Wolf]

ok the Triton 7's have 2 passive 8" drivers for the lows per speaker, but yes the cabinet size is smaller. I will demo them tomorrow and report back on the sub bass findings.

[Lost to the Void]

Passive radiators. Yeah all Tritons have them, but there are no sub drivers.
So the subs are essentially going to be "faked". Time alignment will not be that good as a consequence. You might as well buy the Goldenear bookshelf speakers (Aeons) as they also have passive radiators and no sub, but take up less room, and price.
The Triton 3 would be a better option if you want accurate low end performance at good cost as it has a sub driver.

[Markus Wolf]

Ok after some more research I found that PSB made a model right before the X2T called the T6. They look identical and have almost the exact same specs form top to bottom and they being the previous model are allot cheaper I looked at the graphs for both the X2T and T6 which can be found here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speake ... st36905562 . Top graph is for the T6 second graph is for the X2T. The T6 looks slightly flatter, Bonus!!!. The main difference is the 90 - 50hz region. I went to the local audio shop where they stocked the X2T. I listened to some tracks and they are indeed very unflattering and flat, reminded me very much of boring studio monitors, with the exception of much better bass extension. I had a chance to compare them to Klipsch and Paradigm which sound great in the own right but those two had just to much added sweetness and sugar in the higher regions. The Klipsch/Paradigm for HT or Purely listening purposes I would recommend them but for production definitely not that flat. So I found a pair of used T6's in mint shape according to the owner. He rated them a 10/10. Older gentleman said they havent been pushed hard etc, but who isn't going to say that about their speakers. He also has a Cambridge Audio Azure 651A 75 watts per ch amp brand new. Whole package $1050 CDN or $700 Euro. Not bad. The speakers sound the way I like, they are in supposedly mint condition and the amp looks nice. Im going tomorrow after work to test them out. Thanks again to everybody who helped and to Void for going out of you're way and doing some research for me. I appreciate it. Now in to contrast this a little IF I had gone back to Adams A7X + Sub 8 would have cost me About $3500 CDN vs $1050 CDN less than 1/3 the cost of the Adams setup. The only thing I liked more about the Adams was the Ribbon Tweeter. But I can live without it especially at this price.


cheers

[Markus Wolf]

I Should also mention the dispersion difference between the Klipsch/Paradigm vs the X2T was huge. The X2T being much closer to a studio monitor Narrow and the Klipsch/Paradigm having a much wider sound stage, part of that added sweetness I was talking about. Funny the Klipsch would probably be fun for production but the Translation may be way off. I think allot of these HT/Audiophile companys should start making more neutral sounding speakers aimed at the studio guys.

[borg]

interesting matter...

Around Christmas, I looked around for new monitors, and narrowed it down to Sonic Eggs, Neumanns K+H, and something I can't remember, to take home for a test. Due to various reasons, no studio anymore atm for instance, I held off.
I never really thought of HiFi as an option, but then again, the first five years of my electronic music I used my NAD amp and old Scott speakers as I didn't know any better.

Now, it's only due to this thread that I just started reading up on this audiophile section. At the moment just the Golden Ears Triton 3+, as they seem to just be in my financial range. But, may I ask what amp you have, LttV? Or what amps I should look at to drive the 3+?
Depending on the cost of the future studio, I had a budget in mind of 3 to 5.000 Euros. A bit crazy, but hey, this would be something for the rest of my life.

Interesting...