What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
Post Reply
The_G
Artificial Hazard
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:14 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by The_G »

Lost to the Void wrote:Just to throw a little spanner In the works.
The most accurate Earphones I have used are the Etymotic ER4. They are in ear monitors, hand calibrated to match the sound response of the human ear.
I have been using them for years and fancied a change so this is why I went in to my great headphone trials and got the akg 701s which were the closest thing to neutral.
Recently my missus broke my etymotics and bought me the latest updated set.
I've been using them again just to test em and they are amazing. Tighter with the transients than the akgs and you are more "inside" the music.
Now obviously not everyone can get on with in ear monitors, but as these are also noise isolating you end up listening at much lower levels and are better for your ears. You can also get custom ear inserts made for your ears, which changes everything.

Worth a try if you want the most accurate accurate that ever accurated.
I've honestly never taken the idea of in-ear monitors seriously. They really outperform the AKG 701/702s?

And do you have ER4-PT or ER4-S? They both sell for the same price here.

EDIT: well, I see those are the old models. New models are ER4-SR and ER4-XR. Available online here for slightly more. About $100USD more than AKG-702s.

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by Lost to the Void »

I used to have the Er4pt but now have the er4xr.
Do they outperform the akgs? I think so yes, the transients are more accurate. The sound is in your head.
Not everyone can get along with in ear monitors though, some people find the sensation irritating, they aren't like earbuds, they go right in to your ear canals.

I'd still probably recommend the akgs unless you are familiar with in ear monitoring or can get a test pair to see if you can deal with having things in your ears.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

The_G
Artificial Hazard
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:14 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by The_G »

Lost to the Void wrote:I used to have the Er4pt but now have the er4xr.
Do they outperform the akgs? I think so yes, the transients are more accurate. The sound is in your head.
Not everyone can get along with in ear monitors though, some people find the sensation irritating, they aren't like earbuds, they go right in to your ear canals.

I'd still probably recommend the akgs unless you are familiar with in ear monitoring or can get a test pair to see if you can deal with having things in your ears.
Yeah that might be tough here--limited selection and all that. But it's intriguing to me because I want a pair of accurate headphones/earphones and anything that's compact, lightweight and easy to transport is a huge plus for me.

That said, I can get the 702s here at a store and at roughly the same price as in the US/UK.

ekwipt
Smore
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:18 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by ekwipt »

I just got a Schiit Audio Asgard 2: http://schiit.com/products/asgard-2 to pair with my 600ohm Beyerdynamic DT 880 PRO, sounds great to me. Producing in my room, so can get louder with these at night

The_G
Artificial Hazard
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:14 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by The_G »

Well I pulled the trigger and got the AKG K702s. They sound incredible--so clear and wide. The big difference between these and my AT M50s is in the stereo image...much, much more accurate on the 702s. Also not as much of a low-mid boost, which is (as noted above) more accurate and better for mixing.

User avatar
paclos
Opposite
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:59 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by paclos »

Just received my 701 and I'm like "where is my bass???"

It is just a thing of time getting used to it or do they have no bass?

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by Lost to the Void »

They have a shit load of lovely full bass. Are you driving them correctly?
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

borg
Lifer
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:04 pm
Location: antwerp, be
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by borg »

I think this is a good read for the uninitiated to better understand the working of a headphone
The reason for having different impedance headphones (even within the same model) is to obtain the most efficient signal transfer (match) for different driving circuits.

High-impedance headphones (250-600 ohms) can be used in studios to monitor direct line outputs, where low impedance headphones (less then approximately 100 ohms) would load the circuit too much (draw too much current).

Actual headphone impedance for conventional dynamic, moving coil headphones is determined by the physical factors involved in the headphone driver design: The type of wire used (usually copper or aluminium), the wire gauge and length of the wire on the driver coils, the wire cross-sectional shape (plain round wire, flat "ribbon" wire, or hex-section wire) size of the magnet gap (changes the coil inductance), and even the type and gauge of the external headphone cable. It's an engineering decision.

There are some very high quality headphones with low impedance drivers and also some with high impedance drivers.

A headphone drive coil must be able to create a mechanical force that moves the driver diaphragm. That can be done with a coil having fewer turns of a larger diameter wire resulting in a low impedance coil, or it can be done with a longer coil made of thinner wire.

The "thick wire -low-Z" coil will operate at a lower voltage and more current. The "thin wire-high-Z" coil will operate at a higher voltage and less current. Both examples will require approximately the same amount of power (milliwatts) to produce the same SPL. Both voice-coils wind up having essentially the same moving mass (affects the driver transient response).

On older audio gear, especially that using vacuum tube amplification with transformer coupling, its not uncommon for headphone amp outputs to have a fairly high output impedance. Those circuits are not ideal for driving low-Z headphones, and don't provide the best possible damping factor (which can affect the sound) when used with low-Z phones. On such a circuit, a high-Z phone may have better controlled bass and midrange sound because of the better damping factor achieved from the high load impedance.

On a well designed, low-impedance output circuit, there will be no appreciable difference as long as the headphone amp circuit can provide the voltage and current swings needed (most can).

Low-Z headphones are favored for portable gear because they don't require high voltage swings to provide loud sound levels. For home hi-fi use with mains-powered equipment, there is no problem providing higher voltage swings, so High-Z phones may be used.

In the contex of of "prosumer-grade" audio gear such as USB powered interfaces, headphone amps are typically low-powered op amps running from a power-limited source (the 5 volt USB2 power line). That means a very limited voltage swing. In that specific case, the headphone must be as efficient as possible and must be a good impedance match for the output. Most small USB powered interface manufacturers will specify the lowest impedance headphone their outputs will be able to drive. Typically that number is around 25 to 32 ohms. Those outputs usually work best with headphones with an efficiency of at least 98 dB/mW and an impedance between 32 and 75 ohms. The typical USB powered interface will not have the voltage swing necessary to drive a 250 or 600 ohm headphone.

Again, there is absolutely no correlation of headphone impedance with the ultimate sound quality of headphones. There are many other physical and electrical factors that determine the sound. A higher impedance (alone) does not "make it better".
from this thread on gearslutz:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/newbie- ... 0-ohm.html
Andy
the lunatics are in the hall...

The_G
Artificial Hazard
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:14 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by The_G »

Lost to the Void wrote:They have a shit load of lovely full bass. Are you driving them correctly?
I think he means that they are more accurate in the lower frequencies, rather than overstating them like some headphones do.

User avatar
paclos
Opposite
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:59 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by paclos »

Lost to the Void wrote:They have a shit load of lovely full bass. Are you driving them correctly?
Connected to a focusrite 18i8. Is not enough?

I have to say that I come from the DT770... but I can't feel almost any pressure with the AKG, without comparing them with the 770

User avatar
zukenbauer
You only live once
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:52 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by zukenbauer »

paclos wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:They have a shit load of lovely full bass. Are you driving them correctly?
Connected to a focusrite 18i8. Is not enough?

I have to say that I come from the DT770... but I can't feel almost any pressure with the AKG, without comparing them with the 770
I think its the matter of getting used to it..
If i remember correctly that was my reaction too first when i got them, but i think after few hours you will start to feel the low end properly.

User avatar
paclos
Opposite
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:59 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by paclos »

zukenbauer wrote:
paclos wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:They have a shit load of lovely full bass. Are you driving them correctly?
Connected to a focusrite 18i8. Is not enough?

I have to say that I come from the DT770... but I can't feel almost any pressure with the AKG, without comparing them with the 770
I think its the matter of getting used to it..
If i remember correctly that was my reaction too first when i got them, but i think after few hours you will start to feel the low end properly.
That is what I´m thinking. It should be getting use to it but I wanted just to be sure

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Well the 770 is pretty woolly in the lows. Give it time and you ears will adjust. Like any monitoring it will take a good while for your ears to learn the sound. Audiophiles call it burn in, because they are idiots.

However it might be worth getting a headphone amp. I'm not sure the Focusrite interfaces really drive well enough for those cans.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

User avatar
paclos
Opposite
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:59 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by paclos »

Lost to the Void wrote:Well the 770 is pretty woolly in the lows. Give it time and you ears will adjust. Like any monitoring it will take a good while for your ears to learn the sound. Audiophiles call it burn in, because they are idiots.

However it might be worth getting a headphone amp. I'm not sure the Focusrite interfaces really drive well enough for those cans.
I found this,

Code: Select all

The headphone outputs are, of course, unbalanced, and can drive 130 milliwatts into 60Ω headphones, which seems to be the impedance for which they’re optimized. The headphone amplifier can drive a load as low as 15Ω but with a low impedance load it starts clipping at around 90 mW. Either way, the headphone feed should be reasonably loud unless you’re the drummer (or you’ve stood too close to one for too long). I had no problem getting adequate volume with my Sony 7506 phones, which are around 60 ohms.
from here https://mikeriversaudio.files.wordpress ... review.pdf

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Impedance is not the only factor though. Sensitivity is also a part of it, and the AKG`s have a low sensitivity, the focusrite scarletts don`t have the power to do big swings, so you will find you probably need to crank the volume to get a nice level. 130mw is just enough power for the AKG`s, so you don`t really get the full dynamic impact. I wasn`t completely happy using my focusrite to drive the AKG`s.

To put it another way, I have a scarlett in my production room and I use a headphone amp with my AKG`s and they sound marvelous.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

User avatar
paclos
Opposite
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:59 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by paclos »

Lost to the Void wrote:Impedance is not the only factor though. Sensitivity is also a part of it, and the AKG`s have a low sensitivity, the focusrite scarletts don`t have the power to do big swings, so you will find you probably need to crank the volume to get a nice level. 130mw is just enough power for the AKG`s, so you don`t really get the full dynamic impact. I wasn`t completely happy using my focusrite to drive the AKG`s.

To put it another way, I have a scarlett in my production room and I use a headphone amp with my AKG`s and they sound marvelous.
Which one do you have? any recommendations? Maybe I give a try to compare

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by Lost to the Void »

I got this, it has loop in and out so you can wack it on the monitor out of your card and it will take a nice line level without disabling your monitors.
http://box-designs.com/main.php?prod=headboxs
Not too expensive, plenty of power, nice clean sound.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

User avatar
paclos
Opposite
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:59 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by paclos »

Lost to the Void wrote:I got this, it has loop in and out so you can wack it on the monitor out of your card and it will take a nice line level without disabling your monitors.
http://box-designs.com/main.php?prod=headboxs
Not too expensive, plenty of power, nice clean sound.
what does the "loop" mean? sorry if it is a noob question

User avatar
paclos
Opposite
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:59 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by paclos »

Just noticed that my DT770 are 80 OHM :?

I was using them also not to 100% ?

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: What headphones would you buy for £100-200ish ?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Well again, you have to take in account sensitivity not just impedence and the 770s have a high sensitivity at 95db Spl/v so they are a fairly easy headphone to drive when compared to the k701/702 at 105db Spl/v.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.


Post Reply