Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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Adam wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: So....... it's worth doing basic treatment, to a good level, it will help loads.
Thanks a lot for that post!

I'm in the situation where I've spent around 1.500€ (or more) on acoustic treatment, and I'm considering to invest more. My room isn't ideal (as are most). 2,50m width, 5,56m length and 3,25m height. I've tested several listening and speaker positions with REW measurements and finally found a good solution in my room. I'm working on a pair of Neumann KH120 with KH805 subwoofer. I know, a sub in a 14qm room is challenging, but I have much more possible speaker setups with this combination.

I've treated my room with:
- absorbers on the first reflection points (mixed: EQ Acoustics 50L and Vicoustics Wavewoods on the sidewalls, EQ Acoustics Cloud 25L on the ceiling
- two big bass traps (50x50x115cm) by Browne Acoustics and two GIK Tri traps on one side
- two EQ Acoustics corner bass traps on the other side
- two Basotect DIY absorbers against the flutter echoes behind my listening position

Obviously, my biggest problems are in the bass range. So, I'm thinking about to buy another two big bass traps by Browne. They had the most impact on the reverberation time in the bass range after I installed them. And maybe switch my Vicoustics Wavewoods with larger absorbers like the GIK Monsters.

Here are my latest measurements and a sketch of my room: https://imgur.com/a/MVE06

What do you think? Is it worth to invest more in acoustics treatment in my room? And how good (or bad) is it already?
I think you are hitting the diminishing returns wall to be honest. That plot isn`t too bad.
I mean, you could cover ceiling/wall corners next.....
There`s no reason why you can`t work effectively on production with what you already have though.

I would probably go for better monitors and dump the sub personally.
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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Lost to the Void wrote:
Adam wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: So....... it's worth doing basic treatment, to a good level, it will help loads.
Thanks a lot for that post!

I'm in the situation where I've spent around 1.500€ (or more) on acoustic treatment, and I'm considering to invest more. My room isn't ideal (as are most). 2,50m width, 5,56m length and 3,25m height. I've tested several listening and speaker positions with REW measurements and finally found a good solution in my room. I'm working on a pair of Neumann KH120 with KH805 subwoofer. I know, a sub in a 14qm room is challenging, but I have much more possible speaker setups with this combination.

I've treated my room with:
- absorbers on the first reflection points (mixed: EQ Acoustics 50L and Vicoustics Wavewoods on the sidewalls, EQ Acoustics Cloud 25L on the ceiling
- two big bass traps (50x50x115cm) by Browne Acoustics and two GIK Tri traps on one side
- two EQ Acoustics corner bass traps on the other side
- two Basotect DIY absorbers against the flutter echoes behind my listening position

Obviously, my biggest problems are in the bass range. So, I'm thinking about to buy another two big bass traps by Browne. They had the most impact on the reverberation time in the bass range after I installed them. And maybe switch my Vicoustics Wavewoods with larger absorbers like the GIK Monsters.

Here are my latest measurements and a sketch of my room: https://imgur.com/a/MVE06

What do you think? Is it worth to invest more in acoustics treatment in my room? And how good (or bad) is it already?
I think you are hitting the diminishing returns wall to be honest. That plot isn`t too bad.
I mean, you could cover ceiling/wall corners next.....
There`s no reason why you can`t work effectively on production with what you already have though.
Thank you very much for your perspective. I feel the same. Maybe I'll add some bigger bass traps until I reach the ceiling instead of the GIK trip traps at the listening spot.
Lost to the Void wrote:I would probably go for better monitors and dump the sub personally.
No way! :) I'm working on the Neumann KH120 for over five years now and know them inside out. I've added the Neumann sub after testing several bigger speakers (and other subs). I've got the best results with the Neumanns.

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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Holla. Just got my monitorstands yesterday and now tried a lot of positions and measured where the best is.
So, with no stands, monitors on my table:

Image



With stands:

Image




And waterfall with no stands:

Image Image



..with stands:

Image Image



Looks like a decent improvement. Just with moving my monitors around on stands. And it was like in a 50x50x50cm area. Didn't move them through the whole room.. Sadly i got no measurements before rearranging my room. This would have been a fun comparsion xD

..no treatment at all, until now. Thinking about getting basstraps to diminish that little mountains around 30 and 60hz. But I don't know, will like 2 GIK or EQAcoustics Traps do anything? Would it be worth the money?
:geek:

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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No. 30 and 60hz are very hard to deal with. GIK don't do anything that will deal with it. You need a resonator panel or heimholz to deal with something that low.
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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Root wrote:
..no treatment at all, until now. Thinking about getting basstraps to diminish that little mountains around 30 and 60hz. But I don't know, will like 2 GIK or EQAcoustics Traps do anything? Would it be worth the money?
Scopus tuned membrane traps for frequencies that low. 30hz is easy to deal with by using minimum phase EQ if you do it in moderation.
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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Mattias wrote:
Root wrote:
..no treatment at all, until now. Thinking about getting basstraps to diminish that little mountains around 30 and 60hz. But I don't know, will like 2 GIK or EQAcoustics Traps do anything? Would it be worth the money?
Scopus tuned membrane traps for frequencies that low. 30hz is easy to deal with by using minimum phase EQ if you do it in moderation.

Those scopus things just aren`t worth the money, they are very fussy about placement, and don`t really, no matter what the specs say, do much below 75hz (and even then, they don`t do that much unless you have a ton of the things).
They were one of the things I was thinking about getting, my guy (who did a lot of the work at Angel studios) put me right about the science on that stuff.
I wouldn`t recommend them to anyone unless they are going to get a load of them.
Limp mass membranes just don`t perform well that low.
You need something a little better, such as Custom Audio Modex wall or even better, modex Plate. These things are pretty expensive, and again, 50hz is the best you`ll get.
There is no off the shelf solution to sub 75hz problems really.
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by ZenoSupreme »

hi guys,

I'm looking for a studio and I am wondering if there is a perfect size for it so I dont have to invest to much in acoustic treatment. Are there any measurements I should aim for?

Tnx!

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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ZenoSupreme wrote:hi guys,

I'm looking for a studio and I am wondering if there is a perfect size for it so I dont have to invest to much in acoustic treatment. Are there any measurements I should aim for?

Tnx!
Ideally you want variable dimensions and irregularities that will minimize acoustic interference, maybe something like this:
Image

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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Lost to the Void wrote:
Mattias wrote:
Root wrote:
..no treatment at all, until now. Thinking about getting basstraps to diminish that little mountains around 30 and 60hz. But I don't know, will like 2 GIK or EQAcoustics Traps do anything? Would it be worth the money?
Scopus tuned membrane traps for frequencies that low. 30hz is easy to deal with by using minimum phase EQ if you do it in moderation.

Those scopus things just aren`t worth the money, they are very fussy about placement, and don`t really, no matter what the specs say, do much below 75hz (and even then, they don`t do that much unless you have a ton of the things).
They were one of the things I was thinking about getting, my guy (who did a lot of the work at Angel studios) put me right about the science on that stuff.
I wouldn`t recommend them to anyone unless they are going to get a load of them.
Limp mass membranes just don`t perform well that low.
You need something a little better, such as Custom Audio Modex wall or even better, modex Plate. These things are pretty expensive, and again, 50hz is the best you`ll get.
There is no off the shelf solution to sub 75hz problems really.

Okay, seems like it's not that easy as putting some basstraps in your corners. So I think I made my improvements as far as it was easily possible in my (living)room, without changing the whole room to a complete studio. I'll checkout the sonarworks thingy and then learn my room and new position and see what my mixes will do then. In the end I've paid less than 400€ for a good upgrade. Thanks to reading here a lot and thanks to getting good recommendations.
:geek:

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by Mattias »

Yes one will probably need loads of Scopus or use RPG modexes but expensive as hell. Those super low's are tough crackers to beat
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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1nfinitezer0 wrote:
ZenoSupreme wrote:hi guys,

I'm looking for a studio and I am wondering if there is a perfect size for it so I dont have to invest to much in acoustic treatment. Are there any measurements I should aim for?

Tnx!
Ideally you want variable dimensions and irregularities that will minimize acoustic interference, maybe something like this:
Image
That's kinda beautiful.
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by Root »

The guy who planned this made a small model of it before. Somehow this helped him:

Image

Image


Maybe to check reflectionpoints and proportions?
:geek:

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

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1nfinitezer0 wrote:
ZenoSupreme wrote:hi guys,

I'm looking for a studio and I am wondering if there is a perfect size for it so I dont have to invest to much in acoustic treatment. Are there any measurements I should aim for?

Tnx!
Ideally you want variable dimensions and irregularities that will minimize acoustic interference, maybe something like this:
Image
don't think that in my league :cry:

so lets say I can choose between a square, rectangular, round/oval or 'L' shaped room, what should I go with? And Is it better to have a high or low ceiling?

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by Mattias »

Wow impressive venue
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by Lost to the Void »

ZenoSupreme wrote:
1nfinitezer0 wrote:
ZenoSupreme wrote:hi guys,

I'm looking for a studio and I am wondering if there is a perfect size for it so I dont have to invest to much in acoustic treatment. Are there any measurements I should aim for?

Tnx!
Ideally you want variable dimensions and irregularities that will minimize acoustic interference, maybe something like this:
Image
don't think that in my league :cry:

so lets say I can choose between a square, rectangular, round/oval or 'L' shaped room, what should I go with? And Is it better to have a high or low ceiling?
There isn't actually an ideal shape (though perfect cubes are best avoided) any shape can have standing waves, it's really more about ratios.

http://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm this is a great little guide.
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by intrusav »

ZenoSupreme wrote:

so lets say I can choose between a square, rectangular, round/oval or 'L' shaped room, what should I go with? And Is it better to have a high or low ceiling?
Basically, avoid working in a cube as much as possible ..

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by ZenoSupreme »

Tnx guys!

Also tnx for the reading material, will get through it soon :)

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by Skullrattler »

I've got some bass problems (small room, speakers near wall and corner) and still unsure about how much acoustic treatment for my music room matters if best practice is to get stuff mastered by someone else anyway?

I made large absorbers using fibreglass insulation panels in rectangular frames (following a design I saw in SOS forum I think) but there's no limp mass membrane at the back as I'm worried that it would make the traps too heavy to hang from these flimsy plasterboard walls... It's not my property so I can't do structural alterations.

They seem to have slightly improved things but if I stand in one corner of the room (away from monitoring position) I can still hear a lot of booming.

Is it workable to produce a rough mix in my own room, then pay for some time in a proper studio to polish the mix, then give the stereo mix down to someone else to master?

I gave up in the past over these issues as it was way over my head. When I started out I thought it was enough to get some gear, make some tunes and record them :D

I remember playing live sets and not recognizing my own tracks because of how different they sounded in the venue....I literally had no idea of wtf was going on but it mostly went down well.

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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by Root »

Bass in a corner is not of your concern as you don't make music and mix in that corner ;). You'll want good sound at your mixing position, you know that triangle thing.. Have you done any measurements?
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Re: Acoustic Treatment Help ?

Post by Skullrattler »

I'm going to try Sonarworks .. any good?


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