Short Production Tips & Tricks

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
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Lost to the Void
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by Lost to the Void »

terryfalafel wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
Bionic_Eye wrote:make a track
convert it 2 bpm faster to wav
drop it down in ableton without warping
and play it in the original bpm
your song will sound warmer
None of that makes sense.
Either the actual sentence structure or the supposed result from doing it.
Warmer is obviously bollocks, but I recall reading advice from you where you talked about creating grooves for that Ben Sims fast type of techno by making loops faster than your track and then pitching them down to match track tempo. There's a kind of slushiness or something created (subjective word alert!) when you do that.

I reckon that's what the poor chap was attempting to suggest to us.
Haha
Yes that technique can lead to nice smearing and grunginess.

Not warmth though.
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tsaro
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by tsaro »

Lost to the Void wrote:
Haha
Yes that technique can lead to nice smearing and grunginess.

Not warmth though.


Looks like a convoluted way of slightly lowering the sample rate, suppose you could call that 'digital warming' with a bit of imagination since it drops some high freq content. Or am I missing something here...?
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Lost to the Void
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by Lost to the Void »

Its not so much lowering the sample rate as stretching out the sound.
If you just lower the sample rate on a sample it doesnt do the same thing at all.
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TimBuys
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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Hades wrote:also, Timbuys,
last quick tip...

when you select your 1 synth to learn your sound design on, be sure to have the minimum of basic options :
*2 oscillators (though you'll be surprised what you can do with just one)
*2 filters (at least HP and LP, BP is a nice extra), preferably with the option of putting them in parallel or serial mode
*2 LFO's (anything else is great, but might make you too spoiled if you later switch to many other synths that only have 2 LFO's)
*3 envelopes minimum, one for volume, one for pitch, and one for your filter.
*small details like key tracking and negative filter modulation are extremely important. Trust me, you really want that shit.

anything else is great, and a wonderful extra,
but these are (for me at least) the minimum specs for a synth to learn your sound design on.
Of course you can learn this on synths with less specs,
but in this digital age, why should you ?
Because sooner or later you're gonna come across those specs that you didn't have before, so you might as well learn it all properly from the start, no ?

good luck ! :)
Thanks for the tips dude! I guess I am already partly doing that. I recently stepped over to Massive and IMO it is a bit easier to work with than Operator because of the drag and drop and better display. I think I will only be satisfied with my skill level once I can replicate basslines and pads I hear in other tracks accurately though :). I will definitely invest a lot of time in the next months to come to get better at synthesis.

Now enough of me hijacking this thread lol. Lot's of good stuff in this thread guys keep em coming.

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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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TimBuys wrote: Thanks for the tips dude! I guess I am already partly doing that. I recently stepped over to Massive and IMO it is a bit easier to work with than Operator because of the drag and drop and better display. I think I will only be satisfied with my skill level once I can replicate basslines and pads I hear in other tracks accurately though :). I will definitely invest a lot of time in the next months to come to get better at synthesis.

Now enough of me hijacking this thread lol. Lot's of good stuff in this thread guys keep em coming.
I haven't used Massive in years, but one of the best things about it is that you can clearly see your modulations going on,
and when I first started properly learning sound design, I remember what a big help it was that Kontakt had lights moving around its knobs,
to show how the parameters got modulated.
Visual feedback was extremely helpful to me back then.
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by tsaro »

Lost to the Void wrote:Its not so much lowering the sample rate as stretching out the sound.
If you just lower the sample rate on a sample it doesnt do the same thing at all.
Oh right, I guess somehow I was thinking he stretched the entire project 2 bpm and then pitching it back to get the same length he started with.... Which doesn't make any sense either :P

Used trackers for ages and for a good while pitching/looping samples was far superior to any pitch shifting/time stretch algorithm, never though of using it as an effect of sorts.
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by Merah »

Run your fx back into themselves. Make a sound one octave higher than what you intend to use, add all necessary fx and processing then bounce this sound to new track, pitch it down an octave via warping and run it into some of the fx you used in the first place. Adds a lovely warmth and distortion.
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by christianmdp »

Hades wrote:Do yourselves a favor and don't render your kick down to audio just because your CPU can't handle your project any more.
Do it with all the rest first and keep your kick for last (and only if you really have to)
Your kick is the heartbeat of your track, and it should be, at all times, the one element that you can always adjust/change at any given time.
Maybe you can help me with some light.

Should i manipulate the sound with eq, compression, third party effects (delay, verb) after bouncing the midi tracks to audio or it doesn't make any difference at all doing these tweaks on midi and bouncing to audio only after everything is done?

I think after receiving some lines on this my workflow may flow better.
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Hades
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by Hades »

christianmdp wrote:
Hades wrote:Do yourselves a favor and don't render your kick down to audio just because your CPU can't handle your project any more.
Do it with all the rest first and keep your kick for last (and only if you really have to)
Your kick is the heartbeat of your track, and it should be, at all times, the one element that you can always adjust/change at any given time.
Maybe you can help me with some light.

Should i manipulate the sound with eq, compression, third party effects (delay, verb) after bouncing the midi tracks to audio or it doesn't make any difference at all doing these tweaks on midi and bouncing to audio only after everything is done?

I think after receiving some lines on this my workflow may flow better.
I'm not quite sure I understand your question.
All I'm saying is that, in my own humble opinion, it's best to leave the kick non-rendered if at all possible,
so you can still change it later on in the project.

As to what effects you should use on your kick, that's totally up to you really.
I always use EQ on 95% of the elements in my tracks, so obviously I'm gonna use an EQ on my kick,
which will also turn it into mono.
I use a bit of compression on my kick, but never too much,
I know most do it totally the opposite way and use a lot of compression on their kicks.
I almost never use reverb on my kicks, but then again I don't exactly make big room techno tbh. :)
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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Hades wrote:
christianmdp wrote:
Hades wrote:Do yourselves a favor and don't render your kick down to audio just because your CPU can't handle your project any more.
Do it with all the rest first and keep your kick for last (and only if you really have to)
Your kick is the heartbeat of your track, and it should be, at all times, the one element that you can always adjust/change at any given time.
Maybe you can help me with some light.

Should i manipulate the sound with eq, compression, third party effects (delay, verb) after bouncing the midi tracks to audio or it doesn't make any difference at all doing these tweaks on midi and bouncing to audio only after everything is done?

I think after receiving some lines on this my workflow may flow better.
I'm not quite sure I understand your question.
All I'm saying is that, in my own humble opinion, it's best to leave the kick non-rendered if at all possible,
so you can still change it later on in the project.

As to what effects you should use on your kick, that's totally up to you really.
I always use EQ on 95% of the elements in my tracks, so obviously I'm gonna use an EQ on my kick,
which will also turn it into mono.
I use a bit of compression on my kick, but never too much,
I know most do it totally the opposite way and use a lot of compression on their kicks.
I almost never use reverb on my kicks, but then again I don't exactly make big room techno tbh. :)
I'm sorry, but i didn't make myself clear with that question.
I was talking about the other elements of the track. Leads, pads, stabs, etc..
I'm aware that maybe it is just a matter of preference, but in deep something is telling me that it is better to bounce the melodies or whatever and do eq, compression, effects and whatelse on the audio files, instead of midi.

:D
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by Lost to the Void »

I never bounce down, I always apply the effects to midi channels. It means I can adjust anything at any point as the mix gets refined.
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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Lost to the Void wrote:I never bounce down, I always apply the effects to midi channels. It means I can adjust anything at any point as the mix gets refined.
Well, this is good to know. I was thinking that quality would be better processing audio instead of midi.
For sure it is good being able to make any adjustments until the deadline.

thank you
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

Post by Hades »

christianmdp wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:I never bounce down, I always apply the effects to midi channels. It means I can adjust anything at any point as the mix gets refined.
Well, this is good to know. I was thinking that quality would be better processing audio instead of midi.
For sure it is good being able to make any adjustments until the deadline.

thank you
I only start to bounce down once I'm 90% sure of what the part (pad, bass,...) is gonna sound like,
but if there's even the slightest doubt, I will still keep it in my track and disable all of it.
I always have a group track called "rest" to the far right in my clip view, where I move in all the parts I once used,
like for example the MIDI channel I used that was now rendered to audio,
or just parts that I decided to leave out of the mix, or...
That way if I do decide to ever go back, I can just look up the part in that group track and re-enable it again,
adjust it to my liking and render it to audio again.
And when everything in that MIDI track is disabled, it's not eating up my CPU.

But I honestly don't think it sounds different if it's an audio clip or just a VST playing that audio, unless of course your CPU can't handle it all any more.
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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Hades wrote:I only start to bounce down once I'm 90% sure of what the part (pad, bass,...) is gonna sound like,
but if there's even the slightest doubt, I will still keep it in my track and disable all of it.
I always have a group track called "rest" to the far right in my clip view, where I move in all the parts I once used,
like for example the MIDI channel I used that was now rendered to audio,
or just parts that I decided to leave out of the mix, or...
That way if I do decide to ever go back, I can just look up the part in that group track and re-enable it again,
adjust it to my liking and render it to audio again.
And when everything in that MIDI track is disabled, it's not eating up my CPU.

But I honestly don't think it sounds different if it's an audio clip or just a VST playing that audio, unless of course your CPU can't handle it all any more.
Thank you for the input. ;)

Now as a tip for newcomers (like myself) i would say that you need to practice more and read less. I mean, of course it is important to get your doubts solved, as i just did, but you only see the results when putting effort practicing.

Problem is when you start to read everything and your mind wants to put it all in practice at the same time…. :? So go slowly and learn what you're doing in deep.
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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christianmdp wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:I never bounce down, I always apply the effects to midi channels. It means I can adjust anything at any point as the mix gets refined.
Well, this is good to know. I was thinking that quality would be better processing audio instead of midi.
For sure it is good being able to make any adjustments until the deadline.

thank you
There's no quality difference, so do it whichever way suits the way you like to work. There are benefits to bouncing down to audio so don't discount the idea completely. You can't reverse a sound generated by midi for example or cut it up in the same way to rearrange it/add processing per section etc etc.

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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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Planar wrote:There's no quality difference, so do it whichever way suits the way you like to work. There are benefits to bouncing down to audio so don't discount the idea completely. You can't reverse a sound generated by midi for example or cut it up in the same way to rearrange it/add processing per section etc etc.

Got it. But now i ran into another doubt.. :roll: It's about sending sounds to a bus (aux channel).
Lets suppose i will bounce all my midi leads to audio when i've finished the adjustments. Then i want to glue them with some reverb. Should i send them to this bus and add the reverb after bounced to audio, right??
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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Hades wrote:now I'm not sure if this has been said before or not,
but if it has (possibly even by me), I apologize upfront...

listen to your track while sitting in the next room.
(or even one floor down or up, but you might need to properly turn the volume up to do that)
the parts of the track that you really want to stick out,
are the parts you should be able to hear clear enough.
Now of course, bass will always travel way better to the next room than other sounds,
so you'll always hear your kick/sub/... more clearly than most other sounds,
try to ignore that if you can.
But if what you hear in the next room doesn't make you interested enough into hearing the whole track properly,
then you might as well call it quits...

Again, this one is just a "feeling" kind of thing,
not some kind of exact science.

It works for me, but I'm by all means not saying this would work for everyone.
there is also the 3rd Person Perspective technique which is basically you let someone hear your tracks and listen with them and then you hear it from their perspective and notice what is wrong with it

http://www.attackmagazine.com/features/ ... instantly/

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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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winston wrote:there is also the 3rd Person Perspective technique which is basically you let someone hear your tracks and listen with them and then you hear it from their perspective and notice what is wrong with it

http://www.attackmagazine.com/features/ ... instantly/
I think this one works, as i was getting annoyed by some metallic sounds on one track and a friend said it was looking like a dentist drill.
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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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christianmdp wrote:
Planar wrote:There's no quality difference, so do it whichever way suits the way you like to work. There are benefits to bouncing down to audio so don't discount the idea completely. You can't reverse a sound generated by midi for example or cut it up in the same way to rearrange it/add processing per section etc etc.

Got it. But now i ran into another doubt.. :roll: It's about sending sounds to a bus (aux channel).
Lets suppose i will bounce all my midi leads to audio when i've finished the adjustments. Then i want to glue them with some reverb. Should i send them to this bus and add the reverb after bounced to audio, right??
I don't really understand the question. You can bus things as midi or after bouncing, it's up to you. Don't worry about this too much. As a rule of thumb, if you want to manipulate the sound as an audio file then bounce it, if not, don't. If you want your bounced sound to include the sound of your bus then resample the master channel (or use the resample channel in Ableton).

If you're talking about mixing here, it is absolutely fine to have a mixture of audio and midi channels. And yes, personally I would send to buses after bouncing when mixing. But if you're just sound designing you might want to resample the buses as well.

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Re: Short Production Tips & Tricks

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christianmdp wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:I never bounce down, I always apply the effects to midi channels. It means I can adjust anything at any point as the mix gets refined.
Well, this is good to know. I was thinking that quality would be better processing audio instead of midi.
For sure it is good being able to make any adjustments until the deadline.

thank you
You are always processing audio. The difference between processing a "live" vst and recorded audio is that one is fixed and the other is not.
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