These pads...

[terryfalafel]

Jesus - my first 'how do I...' thread. I ought to know better, but here goes anyway...

I cannot seem to create anything which sound like the pads on this track. I can't even tell if the sounds are synthesised or whether it's (string?) samples with extra breathy noises added on top. They don't sound like real instruments, but they're far more natural and organic sounding than anything I'm able to create with a synth.

Anyone got any tips?

youtu.be/aJ-Q9IV2IRU

[Barskiniov]

Silent Servant has a Korg Delta synth...from what I hear on Delta demos on YT, it is probably a Delta...

[SigEnt]

can't really offer any advice but that's a really nice track.


On a side not are my ears fooked or is the pad/organ sound more prominent in the right hand side?

[samnatur]

It sounds like an organ with lots of reverb and a dist at the end of the chain to me.

[Hades]

It sounds like an organ with lots of reverb and a dist at the end of the chain to me.

just been trying for a few miutes, don't have a lot of time
it's most definitely an organ pad, and yeah, it seems like some small distortion.
there's also some volume modulation going on in the sustain or release phase
(you can't be sure in which one it is because you don't know if they just briefly pressed the notes and have a pad with a long release or if the note is still sustained when the volume modulation is happening)

I made an "organ pad" sound a few years ago with Live's Analog which is pretty damn close to this sound.
I've put in a phaser, auto filter, PP delay and reverb in the signal path after the patch.
(a lot of people shy away from putting delay on a pad, but if you don't overuse it, it can create just another form of reverb, to be honest)

My ears tell me the notes are most likely D3+F3+A3 (first chord) and C3+D#3+G3 (2nd chord)
I get the best results if I play A4 and A5 on top of that 1st chord, and G4 and G5 on top of the 2nd chord.
3rd chord is harder to hear but it's probably A#3+D4+G4 (which is just an inversion where they play G4 where they normally would play G3)
in which case you can just go back to D3+F3+A3 (and I'd usually add a D4 just cause it sounds more "harmonic", but I suspect he just played the A4 again)
Come to think of it, I don't thinkhe plays a chord directly after the 3rd chord, but I only briefly skipped through it twice.

Mind you though, I never have the feeling I'm 100% accurate with these notes, but that's quite common with synth sounds since all these patches can be detuned (my patch isn't, not even any cents), plus if it's a patch made out of samples, you're gonna have "sound planing" going on, or whatever you call that stuff,
where the pitch doesn't transpose completely accurate.
I once searched for more than an hour for a few simple chords, and I could never quite put my hand on what was wrong, untill oddmyth here told me it was just because the original sound was made from samples...

If I made any mistakes in the "C3" or "D4" or whatever, my apologies, but I never use the letters, I use note names.
They are very basic chords anyway.

Anyway, some brief info on how I made my organ patch :
I used a single oscillator, square wave,
but routed to 2 filters and amps in parallel, 1/3 to F1, 2/3 to F2
but F1's level is only brought in if I want to (macro knob), and never at the same level of F1's output level

both have almost the same amp envelope settings :
A = 2.64s
D = 626ms
S = 0.93s
R = 2.99s

but the filter envelopes are different :
filter 1 is a HP filter which gives me the nice brittle top end (only if I want to),
Cutoff = 576, Resonance at 0%
I think the envelope is just the standard one Analog gives :
A = 5ms
D = 626ms
S = 0.00
R = 626ms
Env =>cutoff is 0.28 (which probably does almost nothing) and =>Reso is 0.17 (which does probably even less)
Filter 2 is LP12, Cutoff at 1.2kHz, Resonance at 7%
this one has a nice but quick sweep movement in it though :
A = 283ms
D = 626ms
S = 0.90ms
R = 3.83s
env => cutoff is 2.33 and =>Reso 0.19

Obviously both LFO's are modulating the filters, and there's vibrato going on as well, all very gently done, to put the life into the sound.
Thta's the key ingredient with making "alive"pad sounds : gentle movements everywhere,
then get your sweeps right and the beating oscillators will take care of the rest.

Also : don't forget keytracking !! and velocity to modulate cutoff

Oh yeah: normally I would make "organesque" sounds with sines, but it's exactly the square which gives you the nice melodic sound with the grittle you need here.
I just made this patch and called it "organ pad" later because it reminded me of an organ,
used to play the damn instrument, boring as fuck (no velocity !!), to be honest, but a big sound allright !!

Very gentle phaser going on, and a basic AF LP to cut off quite a bit of unwanted top end (cutoff at 415Hz),
the delay would probably not be needed here and the reverb would have to be longer for the Silent Servant patch.

Not gonna bother typing all the other settings, it's taking up too much time and I got all this pseudo-philosphical rambling to take care off (as a regular member you know how it is with me).

This patch will sound slightly more "melodical" than the Silent Servant one, but it wasn't designed to replicate it,
I just designed it from scratch a few years ago, when I forced my ass to create a few hundred patches with Analog.
If you work with Analog in Live, I can send you the patch, no problemo.
And there is no distortion used as an FX, just the normal filter stuff causing the slight distortion you hear in my patch,
the Silent Servant patch has an obvious distortion added in the signal chain somewhere.

hope that helps,
off for breakfast now.

[Hades]

ok, private link to a quick sound demo I made

https://soundcloud.com/hades/sandwell-d ... mo/s-D7SYk

please note :

the pad is (obviously) done with Live's Analog (the pad I described above) :
I just put a quick kick and sub underneath (I know they are not correct, this is not the point of this exercise)
first 2 times you hear the chord progression I used outboard EQ and my Biscuit for the distortion part (hence the never ending hiss, which I would have tamed more if I wanted invest more time into this), 3rd time I just used a SW plugin.

I did NOT bother to get the distortion on the pad 100% exactly the same, I just fiddled away...
In fact, I suck at distortion, and most likely I suck better at your dick !

that will be 37 falafels now terry !

[Hades]

and now for something completely different...
my pseudo-philosophical thought of the day :
why is it that every egg has only 1/3 of the yummy yellow part,
and 2/3's of that slimey white stuff nobody likes anyway ???
I even seriously distrust anyone who honestly claims to like the white stuff in eggs.
In fact I put them right up there on top of my dislike list,
together with creatures like Bart Dewever, Nana Mouskouri, Marc Dutroux, and Sarah Palin...
these people are just never to be trusted, honestly !!

but yeah, I really wonder ?

Not like "this stuff really keeps me awake at night",
but inbetween trying to replicate a Silent Servant pad
while I'm having an egg or two for breakfast,
and then going for a swim with the kids,
just before I put a kick and sub underneath,
that thought suddenly hits me...
and then what do you do ?

[borg]

because the icky yellow stuff is too damn hazardous for your health.
I like the white stuff. protective and nutritious.

now, that Analog patch, please... if needed I'll PM my email, I'm trustworthy

[Hades]

because the icky yellow stuff is too damn hazardous for your health.
I like the white stuff. protective and nutritious.

now, that Analog patch, please... if needed I'll PM my email, I'm trustworthy

I'm genetically handicapped when it comes to cholesterol !
my mom is as thin as a twig
(I used to be as thin as a twig, somehow things are slowly changing... ),
and she still has cholesterol ! Just because of bad genes !
my dad as well, but he's another story...

so yeah, I've had bad cholesterol since I was still as thin as a twig !
and I barely eat (approx.) 5 eggs a month...

so no, this explanation simply won't do !
I want to get to the bottom of this !

however, let's just put up a list for the analog pad patch and see who else wants it.
or maybe there's just some way I can attach the patch to the topic,
surely there must be but I'm probably too stupid to have noticed it !

are you (finally) having some time off now Andy ?

[Hades]

the white stuff is only good when mixed with the yellow btw !

[terryfalafel]

Thanks Hades! I'll digest all this properly tomorrow. 37 falafels are yours

I'm on cubase so i can't use your Ableton patch unfortunately but cheers anyway.

[Sensive]

Btw, the yellow stuff isn´t as bad as you think it is, thats an obsolete theory. It does actually do more good than harm haha

[Hades]

Thanks Hades! I'll digest all this properly tomorrow. 37 falafels are yours

I'm on cubase so i can't use your Ableton patch unfortunately but cheers anyway.

god damn it !
couldn't you tell me that 80k words ago ?

recap : organ pad
use square wave, LP12 with nice sweep
use lots of little modulations to create good pads.
all the rest : see above

[terryfalafel]

Thanks Hades! I'll digest all this properly tomorrow. 37 falafels are yours

I'm on cubase so i can't use your Ableton patch unfortunately but cheers anyway.

god damn it !
couldn't you tell me that 80k words ago ?

Heh, I was going to ask what kind of analysis you would have made if you weren't in a rush, but it was too easy

recap : organ pad
use square wave, LP12 with nice sweep
use lots of little modulations to create good pads.
all the rest : see above

Yours and the original track are really close! Thanks again for helping with this. The funny thing is, as soon as organ was mentioned it was really clear that's what it was.

I'm going to try and recreate something similar on my MI Ambika.

The breakdown of the chords themselves is interesting too. I generally stick to the same chords, and almost always in C, so seeing another chord progression broken apart will be another good source of inspiration to change things up a bit.

[kertikristof]

Great work Hades, solid pads right there!

[Hades]

Yours and the original track are really close! Thanks again for helping with this. The funny thing is, as soon as organ was mentioned it was really clear that's what it was.

I'm going to try and recreate something similar on my MI Ambika.

well, not really that close, but close enough, you know ?
I mean, the pad is in the same ballpark,
but I just did a quick kick and sub, but they are obviously the wrong notes (kick and sub, not the pad).
I even tried to stick a quick snare/clap/snap or whatever that small percussive sound is in there,
but I couldn't find a decent result fast enough so I took it out again.
wasted enough hours inbetween other stuff trying to work this out for you
(and yeah, of course I kind of enjoyed seeing that even stuff like Sandwell District isn't completely out of reach, though we're still not close enough )
but you know, what's the point in making an exact copy ?
Once you get to like 70% or more, the rest is pointless if you ask me.
You're just gonna waste like hours and hours for nothing.
The exercise is already over by then, if you ask me.

The breakdown of the chords themselves is interesting too. I generally stick to the same chords, and almost always in C, so seeing another chord progression broken apart will be another good source of inspiration to change things up a bit.

chords are as simple as can be really :
the basic fifth chords of D, C and then E
except that the E chord has a basic inversion
and then back to D
B and E are flat in this key, or better : A and D are sharp (same thing)
so that would mean it's the key of A# major if I'm not mistaken.

I think they bring in the octave notes later though, cause you can clearly hear them coming on after the basic chords

btw, I tried adding that pad preset to this topic as a file, but subsekt won't accept .adg extentions...
I say we start stoning John and James as of tomorrow morning !

[Hades]

Btw, the yellow stuff isn´t as bad as you think it is, thats an obsolete theory. It does actually do more good than harm haha

tell me more !

but it's still bad for cholesterol, no ?
cause that's the only reason I gotta stay away from eggs as much as I can (which I usually do anyway, but yeah)

[surface]

Hey Hades, I think you can zip the file and upload but never tried so I'm not sure ..

[terryfalafel]

Btw, the yellow stuff isn´t as bad as you think it is, thats an obsolete theory. It does actually do more good than harm haha

tell me more !

but it's still bad for cholesterol, no ?
cause that's the only reason I gotta stay away from eggs as much as I can (which I usually do anyway, but yeah)

http://www.cookinglight.com/eating-smar ... rol-levels

Not the most scientific source, but you get the general idea.

[Lost to the Void]

That`s almost definitely the Korg Delta, that has string machine written all over it.
The white noise seems separate and not at all linked to the organ.
Seems to be stnadard white noise sweep industrial business.

I`m just hearing an organ sound from the Delta with some grungey lo-fi distortion/fuzz of some kind, and a ton of reverb.
There are quite a few options in vst land for this kind of sound.
http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24
Linnplug Organ 3 http://www.linplug.com/download/fullversion.html (discontinued and now free)
Abd GForce Virtual String MAchine is really good http://www.gforcesoftware.com/products/vsm


Hardware wise it really depends on the capability of your synth/s