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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:59 pm 
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I'm slightly ignorant here, but every example I've heard sounds much more digital and FMish. I like percussive FM, I don't really care for something that sounds analog, it's been done to death.

I'd really like a dedicated FM percussion VST actually. I wonder if one exists? I've built a rack with all the Ableton FM synths, but I find them a bit limited.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:09 pm 
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Planar wrote:
I'm slightly ignorant here, but every example I've heard sounds much more digital and FMish. I like percussive FM, I don't really care for something that sounds analog, it's been done to death.

I'd really like a dedicated FM percussion VST actually. I wonder if one exists? I've built a rack with all the Ableton FM synths, but I find them a bit limited.


http://www.audiospillage.com/drumspillage.html has some fm stuff, its pretty modern sounding

also axon:

http://www.audiodamage.com/instruments/ ... ?pid=AD026

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:10 pm 
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Drum spillage is mac only, so that's a no from me. Axon looks interesting if not ideal, I'll check that out, thanks.

Edit: dramatic 4 looks like it does simple FM as well. Looks like I've got some shopping to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:51 pm 
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Planar wrote:
I'm slightly ignorant here, but every example I've heard sounds much more digital and FMish. I like percussive FM, I don't really care for something that sounds analog, it's been done to death.

I'd really like a dedicated FM percussion VST actually. I wonder if one exists? I've built a rack with all the Ableton FM synths, but I find them a bit limited.


I see.. I guess - in that case - a machinedrum would be a good choice! However the rytm is also capable of generating digital sounding stuff. Note that kickdrum and snare can be FM-synthesized. If you don't like the analog machines you can easily use the 12 samplers instead (very basic BUT they come with a bit-reducer). The LFO has all different kinds of waveforms. With the random waveform plus an LFO-rate that goes higher than snoop dog (rate can be multiplied by a factor of 2k) you can create digitalized but still modern sounding music. Also the reverb-effect sounds really artificial (which I personally don't like very much) and the distortion-effect which can be applied to the whole pattern sounds extraordinarily as well if you tweak the symmetry parameter.

I'd warmly recommend checking out the rytm if you like the overbridge function. Maybe (as I've already said) most audio examples on the internet are crap and giving you the wrong impression.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:09 pm 
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AlexSting wrote:
it's just a question of time until more and more real artists will get in touch with it.


Ooh get you

Real artists

REAL artists

Ooh

Image

Do real artists hang around with these REAL DJ's I hear about?
Is it a little club?

Are you a REAL artist?

Did they give you badge?

Did you go home and show your mum the badge?

"Look mum I'm a rrrrreallll artist"

Did she buy you a nice black roll neck sweater and a beret?

Do real artists hang around in basement bars smoking French fags, stroking their RTM's and snapping their fingers to the real art being made by their friends?

Is this the criteria for making art now?

"Hello I make music, can I come in pl...."
"What do you use to make your music son?"
"Erm instruments"
"What instruments?"
"A guitar, and..... And a looper pedal"
"GET OUT!! YOU ARE NOT A REAL ARTIST AND YOU DONT MAKE REAL ART!!!"

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Pompatus

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AlexSting wrote:
I see.. I guess - in that case - a machinedrum would be a good choice! However the rytm is also capable of generating digital sounding stuff. Note that kickdrum and snare can be FM-synthesized. If you don't like the analog machines you can easily use the 12 samplers instead (very basic BUT they come with a bit-reducer). The LFO has all different kinds of waveforms. With the random waveform plus an LFO-rate that goes higher than snoop dog (rate can be multiplied by a factor of 2k) you can create digitalized but still modern sounding music. Also the reverb-effect sounds really artificial (which I personally don't like very much) and the distortion-effect which can be applied to the whole pattern sounds extraordinarily as well if you tweak the symmetry parameter.

I'd warmly recommend checking out the rytm if you like the overbridge function. Maybe (as I've already said) most audio examples on the internet are crap and giving you the wrong impression.


Tbh, I'm not sold based on all that (audio rate modulation ffs :lol: ). I'll wait and see if they update the machine drum or come up with something a bit more interesting to me. Push has me covered for my hands on sequencing needs anyway, I don't actually need one of these badboys.

Cheers for the info. Continue with your Rytm chat :)

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:47 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
AlexSting wrote:
it's just a question of time until more and more real artists will get in touch with it.


Ooh get you

Real artists

REAL artists

Ooh

Image

Do real artists hang around with these REAL DJ's I hear about?
Is it a little club?

Are you a REAL artist?

Did they give you badge?

Did you go home and show your mum the badge?

"Look mum I'm a rrrrreallll artist"

Did she buy you a nice black roll neck sweater and a beret?

Do real artists hang around in basement bars smoking French fags, stroking their RTM's and snapping their fingers to the real art being made by their friends?

Is this the criteria for making art now?

"Hello I make music, can I come in pl...."
"What do you use to make your music son?"
"Erm instruments"
"What instruments?"
"A guitar, and..... And a looper pedal"
"GET OUT!! YOU ARE NOT A REAL ARTIST AND YOU DONT MAKE REAL ART!!!"

Image



All right I'm sorry that was the wrong expression and it sounds arrogant! My fault!

I just don't like it when there are people who could do superior stuff with those equipment but can't afford it while other people get everything from their rich daddies and do nothing but shit with it. Let's say "toys" or whatever you like. Nobody can declare himself a real artist - society does! But at least I do my homework, before dumping stupid videos everywhere crying OMG LOOK WHAT I'VE DONE. This is the reason why so many good and talented musicians will never be noticed today because they drown in the mental litter of people who just THINK they are creative. Some call it the democratization of music - I don't! It would be better for everyone if some people just played tennis or golf instead of becoming "creative" by boredom.

I need to clarify something because in the end of your storm of anger you've put words in my mouth I've never said: It's not about how you make your music - I didn't even say that you must have specific equipment or a "nice black roll neck sweater". I was just talking about the result which absolutely makes a difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:49 pm 
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Snauth
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This has always been the way.
An artist will make art with anything.
The tools do not the artist make.

I know plenty of part timers who have blown tons and tons of wedge on amazing studios and they can barely make a tune.

It wasn't a storm of anger, it was a tirade of sarcasm, all very tongue in cheek.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:56 pm 
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AlexSting wrote:

The sarcasm is strong with this one. How about making some useful contributions instead of turning this into a farce? *cries* :lol:
3 people are fairly enough to begin with.


Would you look at that. A german dude who understands my sense of humour. And here I thought you guys were a bunch of stiffs. :lol:


Quote:
The sales for the rytm are exploding - I'd rather be annoyed that too many people bought one but don't seem to get a decent track out of it
.

Maybe its because they suck?

Quote:
Most "tutorial" videos are shit.


That's because its the blind leading the stupid. They need to fire Cenk and that idiot who needs to comb his hair and hire some programmers to fix the fucking problems. Like it loses sync when its not the master.


Quote:
The rytm forum is full of people who don't even know how to read the fucking manual.


No shit!!!!

I thought I was the only one who noticed its a bunch of morons. I was trying to do something a while ago and I thought I found a bug or something... I needed to explain what I was doing 4 times to this guy cause he didn't understand the problem. I felt like I was talking to a 5 year old. Fortunately another Cirklon owner who also owns some Elektron gear chimed in on the thread and explained to me that what I was trying to do would result in something else. He actually replied to my first post in that thread. Now I just read that forum when I want to waste some time with some lolz!



Quote:
Rytm is a game-changer so I think it's just a question of time until more and more real artists will get in touch with it.


Its a cool box but it has some problems like losing sync when its not the master. Where are all my different types of drum synthesis??? Its half finished and now they are going to add another layer of problems with Overbridge. Stupid stupid stupid....

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:58 pm 
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Yeah and it showed me, that I should be more careful with my expressions. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:12 pm 
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UN!T B wrote:
Its a cool box but it has some problems like losing sync when its not the master. Where are all my different types of drum synthesis??? Its half finished and now they are going to add another layer of problems with Overbridge. Stupid stupid stupid....


That in fact is a problem. The bugs are annoying during the production process. BUT once everything is set up as desired you can rely on it on stage which in my opinion is far more important.. With Ableton I've had lots of trouble from time to time - especially while performing live. Always and everywhere I had to be prepared for a system crash or drop-outs.

Still waiting for the next update with at least the major bug-fixes.
For example: The scene function is useless for me at the moment because strange things happen too often when changing the scenes (mostly pitch related stuff).

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:24 pm 
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UN!T B wrote:
Would you look at that. A german dude who understands my sense of humour. And here I thought you guys were a bunch of stiffs. :lol:


We are! :mrgreen: And now please let me iron out my Lederhos'n

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:48 pm 
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AlexSting wrote:

That in fact is a problem. The bugs are annoying during the production process. BUT once everything is set up as desired you can rely on it on stage which in my opinion is far more important.. With Ableton I've had lots of trouble from time to time - especially while performing live. Always and everywhere I had to be prepared for a system crash or drop-outs.

Still waiting for the next update with at least the major bug-fixes.
For example: The scene function is useless for me at the moment because strange things happen too often when changing the scenes (mostly pitch related stuff).



You might be able to rely on it but I cannot. The problem is 2 fold. It loses sync when its not the master. The problem stems from it receiving a pgm change. It seems to need time to digest and execute the pgm chg. This leads to fuckery. Some times it execute the pgm chg straight away as it should. Other times it will continue to play for a bar or 2 bars and then execute the pgm change. (I am aware of the different change options too) This makes it unreliable. Imagine a situation where you are approaching a break. You want everything to drop out at a specific point lets say bar 64. When I get to that point the pgm change fires off from my sequencer to all my gear. Everything changes but the Rytm doesn't perform it straight away. Now it runs into bar 65 and 66 fucking my shit up! To be fair sometimes it does execute it straight away but not all the time. It needs to be solid. If it needs 1 or 2 bars to deal with it that's okay, I could work with that but not knowing what is going to happen any given pgm change is unacceptable.

Elektron is aware of this problem they don't know when or if they can fix it. Thats not acceptable either. The Tempest changes patterns (called beats) and doesn't have this problem at all. Rock fucking solid timing. I know this for a fact because I own one of those too. :D They work very well together sonically and each makes up for what the other is missing. In terms of samples, synth, and drums between the 2 of them I have a very well rounded sonic pallet. The only things missing are a dedicated mono synth and some quality effects like the Eventide boxes.

Anyways I will try to stop bitching and see if I can give you some useful info from the time that I have owned it. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:51 pm 
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AlexSting wrote:
UN!T B wrote:
Would you look at that. A german dude who understands my sense of humour. And here I thought you guys were a bunch of stiffs. :lol:


We are! :mrgreen: And now please let me iron out my Lederhos'n


I think you would really be better off having a professional do that for you. Take them into the dry cleaner and be sure to ask for them to be starched and pressed. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:06 pm 
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AlexSting wrote:

So you are performing the transitions with OT, right? I wonder if there are other possibilities besides using samplers. I'd like to stay in the box. Currently I'm recording the running loop into the kaosspad's sampler (thank god it has a midi sync function) to change the kit in the rytm afterwards. What I don't like about this method: All you can do is crossfading between tracks - it's a restriction to creativity.


There are but it depends on how you approach it. I spent some time doing some wood sheding with just the AR for a few months. The first time around I ended up with 16 patterns in a bank that really had no connection to each other. So I tried again. I started copying pattern A into pattern B and then making some changes to the patterns (trigs) and save it as a kit. Each pattern has its own kit. I would change a couple of the sound parameters and a couple of the patterns on each instrument. This way each pattern has some of the same elements and you can move back and forth between patterns without too much of an abrupt change.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:14 pm 
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UN!T B wrote:
AlexSting wrote:

That in fact is a problem. The bugs are annoying during the production process. BUT once everything is set up as desired you can rely on it on stage which in my opinion is far more important.. With Ableton I've had lots of trouble from time to time - especially while performing live. Always and everywhere I had to be prepared for a system crash or drop-outs.

Still waiting for the next update with at least the major bug-fixes.
For example: The scene function is useless for me at the moment because strange things happen too often when changing the scenes (mostly pitch related stuff).



You might be able to rely on it but I cannot. The problem is 2 fold. It loses sync when its not the master. The problem stems from it receiving a pgm change. It seems to need time to digest and execute the pgm chg. This leads to fuckery. Some times it execute the pgm chg straight away as it should. Other times it will continue to play for a bar or 2 bars and then execute the pgm change. (I am aware of the different change options too) This makes it unreliable. Imagine a situation where you are approaching a break. You want everything to drop out at a specific point lets say bar 64. When I get to that point the pgm change fires off from my sequencer to all my gear. Everything changes but the Rytm doesn't perform it straight away. Now it runs into bar 65 and 66 fucking my shit up! To be fair sometimes it does execute it straight away but not all the time. It needs to be solid. If it needs 1 or 2 bars to deal with it that's okay, I could work with that but not knowing what is going to happen any given pgm change is unacceptable.

Elektron is aware of this problem they don't know when or if they can fix it. Thats not acceptable either. The Tempest changes patterns (called beats) and doesn't have this problem at all. Rock fucking solid timing. I know this for a fact because I own one of those too. :D They work very well together sonically and each makes up for what the other is missing. In terms of samples, synth, and drums between the 2 of them I have a very well rounded sonic pallet. The only things missing are a dedicated mono synth and some quality effects like the Eventide boxes.

Anyways I will try to stop bitching and see if I can give you some useful info from the time that I have owned it. :lol:



Did not know that... That's indeed lousy performance, elektron! Anyways, I don't have any plans about extending my setup in a way that would make the rytm operating in slave-mode.
There is this guy, dapayk, who makes reasonable music and has the rytm as an inherent part of his setup. He uses an snd acme 4 clock engine to sync his gear. Here he explains his setup:



Could that be a solution for your problem or is it really ALWAYS just the rytm. I doubt that a musician of his caliber would run a risk on stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:21 pm 
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UN!T B wrote:
There are but it depends on how you approach it. I spent some time doing some wood sheding with just the AR for a few months. The first time around I ended up with 16 patterns in a bank that really had no connection to each other. So I tried again. I started copying pattern A into pattern B and then making some changes to the patterns (trigs) and save it as a kit. Each pattern has its own kit. I would change a couple of the sound parameters and a couple of the patterns on each instrument. This way each pattern has some of the same elements and you can move back and forth between patterns without too much of an abrupt change.


Great advice, thanks! I knew that I have to change my liveset-thinking in general when I want to leave the computer at home.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:18 pm 
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AlexSting wrote:

Did not know that... That's indeed lousy performance, elektron! Anyways, I don't have any plans about extending my setup in a way that would make the rytm operating in slave-mode.
There is this guy, dapayk, who makes reasonable music and has the rytm as an inherent part of his setup. He uses an snd acme 4 clock engine to sync his gear. Here he explains his setup:



Could that be a solution for your problem or is it really ALWAYS just the rytm. I doubt that a musician of his caliber would run a risk on stage.


Its not just the Rytm that has this problem. It also in the OT too. Its part of the reason that I got rid of it

No this isn't a solution. Acme's are expensive as hell and it only does one thing. Generate clock(s) which can be independently started and stopped while maintaining sync. You can see this when he stops the OT independent of the other boxes and loads a project and then restarts it. His pattern/pgm changes are done on each box independently. There is no pgm chg message sent via midi everything is internal. I am send a pgm change message from my Cirklon to switch from pattern A to B and this is where the problem lies in that the AR needs time to "digest" the pgm message. I cannot figure out if its a problem where by its a matter of when the message is sent. At the start of the bar, end of the bar or middle.

I have to admit his approach to the problem is an elegant solution, all be it an expensive one. An Acme would be a complete waste of money in my case as my main clock/sequencer is the Cirklon.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:40 pm 
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AlexSting wrote:
UN!T B wrote:
There are but it depends on how you approach it. I spent some time doing some wood sheding with just the AR for a few months. The first time around I ended up with 16 patterns in a bank that really had no connection to each other. So I tried again. I started copying pattern A into pattern B and then making some changes to the patterns (trigs) and save it as a kit. Each pattern has its own kit. I would change a couple of the sound parameters and a couple of the patterns on each instrument. This way each pattern has some of the same elements and you can move back and forth between patterns without too much of an abrupt change.


Great advice, thanks! I knew that I have to change my liveset-thinking in general when I want to leave the computer at home.


You're welcome.

Have you considered adding some sort of midi control surface so you can access more than one section of the AR at a time? What I mean is if you get an ipad and add the lemur app you can map all the knobs pads and parameters to the lemur. Then when you are playing you can be in one area of the AR the mute section and then have the app open to the performance section and interact with that. Its sort of like you are able to create 2 layers that you can interact with at the same time. Its an idea you might consider. I do this type of thing with the Cirklon and the AR. I am muting tracks and interacting with performance section. I think this type of idea can really extend the AR creatively.

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 Post subject: Re: Elektron RYTM user topic
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:53 pm 
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Quote:
Its not just the Rytm that has this problem. It also in the OT too. Its part of the reason that I got rid of it

No this isn't a solution. Acme's are expensive as hell and it only does one thing. Generate clock(s) which can be independently started and stopped while maintaining sync. You can see this when he stops the OT independent of the other boxes and loads a project and then restarts it. His pattern/pgm changes are done on each box independently. There is no pgm chg message sent via midi everything is internal. I am send a pgm change message from my Cirklon to switch from pattern A to B and this is where the problem lies in that the AR needs time to "digest" the pgm message. I cannot figure out if its a problem where by its a matter of when the message is sent. At the start of the bar, end of the bar or middle.

I have to admit his approach to the problem is an elegant solution, all be it an expensive one. An Acme would be a complete waste of money in my case as my main clock/sequencer is the Cirklon.


Ah now I understand what you're doing. Too bad elektron can't provide a solution for that. I bet it's a hardware problem!

Can you remember how you created stereo information with the AR? The only possibilities I know are:
- LFO to Pan-Pot (sometimes lame)
- Reverb/ ping-pong delay
- Static panning for each instrument

In Ableton Live I know many tricks for widening the stereo field but they won't work with the rytm.

Quote:
You're welcome.

Have you considered adding some sort of midi control surface so you can access more than one section of the AR at a time? What I mean is if you get an ipad and add the lemur app you can map all the knobs pads and parameters to the lemur. Then when you are playing you can be in one area of the AR the mute section and then have the app open to the performance section and interact with that. Its sort of like you are able to create 2 layers that you can interact with at the same time. Its an idea you might consider. I do this type of thing with the Cirklon and the AR. I am muting tracks and interacting with performance section. I think this type of idea can really extend the AR creatively.


Yeah I have already tried that. I've got a KORG PadKontrol but it's useless for this method. When I control the mute section with it the padkontrol won't offer visual feedback (Is the track muted or not?). For the performance section I'd need a controller with aftertouch.
Maybe I should get myself a mixing desk with mute buttons. An iPad could be interesting, too. Have you tried STROM for iPad?

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