programming synths for techno

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pleb
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programming synths for techno

Post by pleb »

im trying to tweak a few presets but i dont get the same sound that I hear in tracks. would it be possible to start a thead where we can get a bit of info on good synth patch starting points for decent stock sounds for techno?

like a good low bass. maybe a middle range one. a stab and a sound effect pad patch. i dont want to copy anyone but just get a good starting point. everything in the synths seems to have too much effects n shit. turning them off makes them sound even worse

i seen some online for synth tips in sound on sound but anythin i see is for the type of presets that youget in a casio keyboard. not very techno hahaha

im a noob hands up. please dont all jump on me at once now hahaha take a ticket :P

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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by rollah »

i dont use a lot of synths to be fair. i might resample something and effect it, then trhow it into sampler.

if i was doin something, i might grab a couple of saws. tight adsr. short stabby and percussive man.

make one oscilator an octave lower than the other then stick an envelope to the filter.

bit of decay on the filter. it'll make it click. less decay = less click. try pulling down the cut off and hiring the resonance so that it gets bigger. whatever you like. Thats how i go about a bass sound. if you add some reverb and play it higher up, draw out the release and you have yourself a bit of a stab.

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sam
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by sam »

Get your grains of salt ready boys :)

A couple of really basic ones.

Nice sub can be had with a saturated and filtered sine or heavily filtered saw or square with the pitch modulated by an adsr envelope (or lfo but I've found it's easier to control with adsr). It's good for the bass lines that sound like they suck up out of the kick towards the offbeat. Either use two (or more) copies of the synth or automate the envelope attack and decay to get different speed pitch bends and variations.

This one is Porc doing some bendy and funky as hell sub action:

youtu.be/rJdFz2KK2rU

Another basic one is the classic techno thwip. It can be done a lot of ways but an easy one is a sine with a really fast pitch drop the same as you would synthesize a kick but a couple of octaves higher. Assign velocity to amp and filter (and experiment with other parameters) and you can get some killer grooves with velocity alone. Oscar Mulero uses thwips a lot and amazingly effectively.

This has Oscar thwip action all over it:

youtu.be/uAqCoc2LFFQ

For both to sound good they rely heavily on the context. A bendy sub won't sound that good until it's coupled with a complimentary kick which has the correct pitch and amp adsr, and the thwip won't sound that good until it's embedded into a killer groove.

I found while experimenting it's good practice to do one thing at a time and force yourself to just make kick + bass combos or kick + thwip grooves or whatever, but resist piling on a load of other percussion and synths for as long as you can. The longer you hold off the more subtlety and technique you'll uncover.

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Mattias
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Mattias »

Sorry to go off-topic but I'm pretty sure the sub in the Porc track is an Mbase bassdrum LFO modulated.

Otherwise some good basic advice from Sam there.
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by sam »

i've actually got an airbase99 which i believe has a very similar bass drum to the mbase and it does sound very similar. it has 2 lfos that can both be assigned to pitch so could get very near probably.

whats funny is that while trying to emulate Porc basses i tried to make a synth in reaktor with a single osc, adsr and lfos, because i could kind of hear what was going on, but i never finished it.

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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Críoch »

I'm a bit of a preset tweaker. I'll find a sound I like & strip off the fx - then add my own fx chain. I have a few that I like in sylenth that are good.. which are organ-y sounds or chordy, stab sounds. If I do a bass, its a bit hit and miss for me too, but I'll have one osc an octave higher. Using 2 saws, or 1 saw / 1 square and put a bit of filter envelope on it too.

The only real adjustments I make would be to the envelopes - usually tighter. Maybe fk with the filter and res, finding the sweet spot with the res. If theres a envelope on the filter, I more often than not make it less clicky by lessening the decay.

Something that I've started to do recently is add a bit of noise modulation to the master pitch. A tiny bit makes it sound more alive to me and it keeps changing throughout the track.

I like FM sounds and I'll usually get something nuts out of big tick rhino within a few trys.

When I used to use logic, I'd use the default patch in the EXS24 - basically a single sine wave & apply some crazy pitch modulation to it, then lower the transpose, or the midi in the piano roll, until it got back in the bass region. It took a sidechain input, so you could modulate anything.. so would have the pitch going rhythmically essentially. Got some good bouncy grooves that way. Think I mainly used 1/4 notes in the midi clip for the pattern.

I think you can get any sound pretty much & make it "techno".. you just have to treat it a bit with some filtering and delay / reverb an you can make it sound darker, spacier or rhythmic.. or a bit of gating / sidechain. Theres a lot of stuff that you hear that probably isnt being programmed as a pattern. If you were to take the fx off you'd be surprised at what created that sound.
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Críoch »

Nice one Sam.. will be fkkn about with some of those ideas when I get near the computer. The Porc bass sounds similar to something I used to do ages ago - Dont know why I dont do it now :?

99% sure that Mulero played that one when I seen him.. but take that with a grain of salt lol
sam wrote:Get your grains of salt ready boys :)

A couple of really basic ones.

Nice sub can be had with a saturated and filtered sine or heavily filtered saw or square with the pitch modulated by an adsr envelope (or lfo but I've found it's easier to control with adsr). It's good for the bass lines that sound like they suck up out of the kick towards the offbeat. Either use two (or more) copies of the synth or automate the envelope attack and decay to get different speed pitch bends and variations.

This one is Porc doing some bendy and funky as hell sub action:

youtu.be/rJdFz2KK2rU

Another basic one is the classic techno thwip. It can be done a lot of ways but an easy one is a sine with a really fast pitch drop the same as you would synthesize a kick but a couple of octaves higher. Assign velocity to amp and filter (and experiment with other parameters) and you can get some killer grooves with velocity alone. Oscar Mulero uses thwips a lot and amazingly effectively.

This has Oscar thwip action all over it:

youtu.be/uAqCoc2LFFQ

For both to sound good they rely heavily on the context. A bendy sub won't sound that good until it's coupled with a complimentary kick which has the correct pitch and amp adsr, and the thwip won't sound that good until it's embedded into a killer groove.

I found while experimenting it's good practice to do one thing at a time and force yourself to just make kick + bass combos or kick + thwip grooves or whatever, but resist piling on a load of other percussion and synths for as long as you can. The longer you hold off the more subtlety and technique you'll uncover.
KennethExack wrote:My kids and I are completely shocked by the specialized secrets that everyone has on this forum
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Lost to the Void »

I expect I will sound a bit like a broken record on this issue as it may crop up a lot.
But.....

Techno is a genre about innovation, experimentation, futurism and technology.

One of the problems I see with techno now is that as it has become quite popular again (although really it is minimal that has become big, more related to house than anything) it has caused a glut of copycatting.

Too many guys listening to the latest Sellout or christ liebing or whatever and essentially copying "that" sound.

I would strongly encourage any producer to take 1 or 2 synths, learn how everything works on them, and then go nuts with the sounds.
This is how you make techno synths.

Listen to current stuff, and then try to make sounds that DON`T sound like current stuff. This in essence, is techno (IMHO).

Checking other tunes for balance etc is good, so you make you r music tonally balanced so it fits with other stuff, but basically, with your sound design, experiment experiment experiment.

The producers you know and love, you probably love because they have their own sound. So don`t then copy that sound, find your own.

At least try.

If you aren`t too good with your chosen synth then try this.....

Try mapping a bunch of controls at high speed (without thinking) to your midi controller, at random.

Set up a sequence. Close your eyes, twiddle them nobs, keep doing it until you find something cool.

Taoist techno production.

Don`t think
Do
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Críoch »

That is wicked advice Steve!!

Taoist Techno Method. Love it hahaha
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pleb
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by pleb »

thanks guys for all that. many good tips and fantastic advice there from you lost. you are right. i just want to know the basics before i smash the rules. im just starting off and im doubtin my ears and whther im gettin the right tone and depth

are there any books or sites or anything out there that might be a good place to get some of the basics?

ok. need to go and digest all this. thanks again everyone. didnt expect to have all these replys so soon

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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Lost to the Void »

Try this place for a run down on synth use.
http://www.innovativesynthesis.com/cate ... thesizers/
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Mattias »

sam wrote:i've actually got an airbase99 which i believe has a very similar bass drum to the mbase and it does sound very similar. it has 2 lfos that can both be assigned to pitch so could get very near probably.

whats funny is that while trying to emulate Porc basses i tried to make a synth in reaktor with a single osc, adsr and lfos, because i could kind of hear what was going on, but i never finished it.
I might be an Airbase99 also, as you say they sound very similar and both rocks big time.

While I agree with what Void says here, I'd like to remind that its good to learn the basics and "rights" so you can exploit the "wrongs". In most cases people new to the production of Techno will copy the current sounds and ideas and implant in their own productions while they gaining experience. Suddenly they realize that while doing this and that on their basic standard tutorial sound you can get another type of sound and they go from there.
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sam
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by sam »

good points everyone.

even at the time i felt a bit stupid giving the examples i did, but thought they're generic enough to be worth a mention as they can be used as a start point for a lot of bass and pitched percussion sounds.

i used to get lost in the bass for hours and while ultimately maybe a waste of time it can be so much fun :-)

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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Mattias »

Don't worry, your examples are good start pointers Sam.
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by kuba_rubacha »

most certainly :D mess about with them as much as you can,techno is about beein different esse :-)

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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Mslwte »

Messing with a synth a recording the audio is a cool thing to do. Then you can mess with loop points etc and come up with some weirdness.
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Re: programming synths for techno

Post by Lokua »

Lost to the Void wrote: I would strongly encourage any producer to take 1 or 2 synths, learn how everything works on them, and then go nuts with the sounds.
This is how you make techno synths.
this 100%


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