The problems of masking

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
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P-_
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The problems of masking

Post by P-_ »

So I've been working on a track the last while. It's a bit OTT and cluttered but I like it anyway and am trying to get the best mixdown now before sending it off for mastering.

Composition is finished so I'm now starting to EQ everything. You know, cut out the nastier frequencies in the sounds that were layering with other nasty resonant frequencies and leading to an overall harsh and unpleasant sound in some spots. Problem is that often the more mud and dirt I strip away, the more I can hear the other horrible tones in other sounds that were been hidden by that first sound. Obviously that's just a tip to move through everything eliminating the horribleness but fast forward a few steps further and I'm suddenly left with something that sounds much more lifeless and dry sounding. I probably just need to do a new mix down now that everything is different, and maybe some general tonal rebalancing to even everything out but it's a bit of pain.

Just wondering if anyone had an similar experiences and maybe any tips on how to approach this? Obviously you can't leave the nasty frequencies there just because they cover up other nasty frequencies, that's madness. At the same time I know that I probably shouldn't be over processing everything either as it's just going to lead to everything sounding thin. So, what's a man to do eh?!

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sam
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Re: The problems of masking

Post by sam »

I feel your pain P-_, and I'm sorry that I don't have any good advice.

A similar thing has happened to me for years. I've made thousands of loops and it would usually turn out that the thing I liked most about them could be traced to some kind of weird distortion or flapping effect caused by masking. And it's usually only properly audible on the speakers or headphones I would make them on.

One thing that helps me these days is eqing the shit out of things. If there's something about a sound that I like I'll push the gain up a lot around the frequencies that give the sound its character. As long as there's no masking it's a matter of adjusting the overall gain of the sound to make it fit in with the rest after that.

I'm sure this will change as I learn more tho.

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Re: The problems of masking

Post by gurr13r »

Im no expert, what seems to work for me is to use fabfilter Q pro, I isolate the sound I want cutting out all unwanted frequencies in the process, I do it as I go along which makes it alot easier in the long run, as I said im no expert this is what works for me... If eqing removes the bit of magic from a sound leave it alone, there are no rules! as long as it sounds good who cares.

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Re: The problems of masking

Post by Mslwte »

It all depends on what your trying to do but I actually believe that a little bit of muddyness/overlapping of sounds is a good thing it kind of adds to the sound. But the sound I'm trying to create is heavy and distorted anyway.

One thing you should try is to get your sounds right First time! If you can't get a sound right then don't use it or force it.

Another thing is go with what your ears are telling you rather that what you might see on a screen. Back in the day the pioneers just used there ears. If you study eq curves from track made back then you'll be surprised at what they look like ;)
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P-_
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Re: The problems of masking

Post by P-_ »

Cheers for the replies!

Yeah, obviously starting with the best material first is the best idea. And you're right too, if extreme EQ settings sound much better than it's gotta be OK.

Anyway, I've made a little leeway with the track by clearing away as much of the horrible frequencies as possible and then using EQ to rebalance the sound a bit. I'm after doing another mixdown on the whole thing from scratch and it's sounding much better, if still a little hollow... Reckon it'll be fine with a bit more tampering!

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Críoch
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Re: The problems of masking

Post by Críoch »

+1 for the Pro Q. Got it on a student discount ages ago & havent used it really.

Was using it today instead of the EQ8 and it definitely sounded a LOT smoother. The slopes you can get on it - brilliant. EQ3 is better than EQ8 - lol

AND - it does M/S - so win/win. Glad I got it.

P - are you doing M/S on any of your EQ'n?
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Re: The problems of masking

Post by Críoch »

Oh yeah.. and noticed when I was EQ'n with the Pro Q that there was fk all phasing happening.

The last time using the EQ8 - and autofilter, I noticed the phase going nuts on Voxengo Span. Today with the Pro Q, I'd say 5% compared to what the live plugs were. Must keep an eye/ear on it :)
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Re: The problems of masking

Post by P-_ »

Thank for the tips. Haven't been using m/s but will be looking into it. And yeah, Ableton EQ, compressor and reverb are all muck! I like the delay's and chorus because they are so useful but I'd say there are better out there!

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Re: The problems of masking

Post by P-_ »

Yeah, turns out I just really had to go at it without mercy and cut back on everything... It's so much more difficult when it's a busy track, think I'll try to keep things a little simpler with my next effort! Cheers again lads...

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Re: The problems of masking

Post by Lost to the Void »

EQ8 in ableton is fine, just remember you can right click on the bar at the top of the Eq and then select High Quality in the drop down.
If it is good enough for Henke it should be good enough for anyone ;)

As a general rule I would the best EQ is NO EQ
Choose the right instrument and sound to fit the right place in the mix and you will need very little EQ to trim it.

Extreme boosts in EQ do horrible things to the sound unless you are using a certain type of analog EQ, (look up subtractive EQ and the theory behind it). So cut rather than boost wherever possible.

Massive amounts of EQ boost spread around your mix will leave it sounding over full, probably with frequencies that render it a disgusting mess once it hits a soundsystem, and most good mastering engineers will detect this, try to correct for it, and if they can`t, send it back.

Obviously a little boost here and there can be just what is needed, but sparingly, not as preference.

If 2 sounds are interacting in a way that excites you and you don`t want to touch them in relation to each other, then send them to a buss and then EQ the buss.
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