Dark Lab / Studio Thread

[innovine]

You know, I don't have to prove myself here. It's not my job to point out where the forum sucks, its yours to make it less sucky.

[Planar]

No, you don't have to prove yourself, and given the evidence you'd find it difficult. Your post history is there for all to see. People can make their own minds up.

If you think it sucks here then maybe stick to calling other members wankers on DOA.

[Mattias]

You know, I don't have to prove myself here. It's not my job to point out where the forum sucks, its yours to make it less sucky.

No one asked you to.

Maybe just maybe it's how you yourself perceive things around here? It's really easy to do on an Internet forum.

[Lost to the Void]

No, you don't have to prove yourself, and given the evidence you'd find it difficult. Your post history is there for all to see. People can make their own minds up.

If you think it sucks here then maybe stick to calling other members wankers on DOA.

Do you two have history?

[Planar]

No, I try to respond to posts and not the posters as a rule (which isn't necessary on here really, everyone is cool) and I actually think he's an interesting guy when he wants to be. But I've lurked for about 10 years on DOA and see him post on there every so often with the same pattern of interesting/abrasive dependant on mood. I obviously notice his posts because he's a member here.

I have no beef with him, but I think bullshit should be called out.

[Sandor]

Some really nice setups here

I do everything in the computer. Used to use my mac, but now PC. Use mac for DJing still.

1601509_800112703385304_8359496768757559964_n.jpg (108.18 KiB) Viewed 1899 times

10801668_800112686718639_8906527097417291201_n.jpg (120.08 KiB) Viewed 1899 times

Production gear:
- Core i5 machine
- LG 34" 21:9 monitor
- Focusrite 2i4
- Yamaha HS7
- Xone K2 controller
- Ableton Push
- AKG 702
- HD25

DJ Gear:
- 21 year old SL1200s MK2 (3x) in storage for now (lack of space)
- 2x Pioneer 2000 nexus
- 2x Traktor X1 MK2
- Traktor F1
- Allen & Heath DB2
- KRK RP5 G3
- Maschine mk1 (borrowed from a friend)


I only started producing a year ago.. still learning and still have a long way to go. Have a few things I want to change on the production gear:

- Need a proper room (I will be moving to a bigger house where I will have one room for all my gear)
- Monitors off my desk.. and out of the corner.
- Want a midi keyboard. Looking at AKAI, NI and Novation
- Good amp for my AKG

Think for a year or so to sell my SL1200s to invest in my production gear.. but I'm scared of selling them I think I will regret it.

For the DJ gear I'm waiting to see what the market does. Right now I would maybe want a Xone 92, but if Allen & Heath would make something like a DB6 with send and returns I would buy that instantly. The DB2 doesn't have send returns unfortunately.
Ofcourse we all want a lot more, but for short term this would make me happy

[Hades]

Can someone point out to me where innovine has been ridiculed or disrespected please?

You know, I don't have to prove myself here. It's not my job to point out where the forum sucks, its yours to make it less sucky.

Planar asked you a question but you don't give any answer, you just dodge the question.
Let's presume for a second there is this really "hostile" attitude, and you are saying you want Planar and others to make this forum a better place.
Planar just mentioned he read through a whole topic again to find examples.
Don't you think that already proves he's putting in a certain effort ?
I mean, it's not as if everyone is just waiting around, having nothing better to do than to reread rather boring topics where there's nothing much to learn from because it's mostly composed of some stupid jokes we throw about back and forth.
But yeah, he's asking you to just name some obvious examples,
then why not give some ?
Nope, you simply say it's his job to make it better instead of helping him by naming examples that he's asking for
(and which he already did an effort for to try and find, even before asking the question).


And this whole "I don't need to prove myself"...

Look, if you say something that is conceived by most people here as a rather personal point of view instead of some hard strong fact that is ruining the possible potential this forum could offer (or at least that's the impression I have from what UN!T and you are saying : our elitist and hard attitude is ruining Subsekt's potential), then why not answer the question planar asked you ?
It would help. Even if we disagree about something, it doesn't mean we won't listen to a different opinion.
But if you're dodging the question, there's not gonna be much discussion.

And another thing, and I know this is gonna sound arrogant to say, but on every forum some people's words are just gonna hold more value to others than the words of someone else.
This is personal for everyone !!
Everyone could like totally different people for totally different reasons. Some of those reasons might be on a more personal level, others might be on a more technical level.
Of course all people should be treated equal, of course, bloody hell !!
But there is always a difference between how people should be treated equal (which we can work on), and how much people will listen and take your advice and/or opinion as something valuable (which we can't work on since that's personal for everyone and differs from person to person) and which is usually also a result from what people say and how they behave and respond to certain situations.

For example : One person might think everything Steve says is just a ridiculous ramble, because they feel he's an arrogant "always knows best" kind of guy.
I personally don't have that impression though I can understand how people can perceive him as being so, I had the same feeling for a very short while when I first arrived here, I just think those people haven't read enough of his posts to see who he really is (or are simply too easily offended). For me, as a pure amateur, someone like Steve saying something serious (not talking about the having a laugh shit now) about a technical aspect usually holds more value than what someone else might say.
It doesn't mean I won't read other people's posts about something or I'll blindly do what he says.

Or to give another example : UN!T knows his shit. He does. He's giving really valid logical replies to help out others with their technical problems.
So if I see UN!T post something technical, I'll be more inclined to appreciate that post than what some others here might have posted.
(doesn't mean I think his sig is a good idea though)
I've seen someone here arrive a few months ago and most of the posts I see are just pics or whatever.
Sure, they're fun, but that doesn't help out a lot, you know ?

It's pretty simple really : if you're a car maniak, and you're on some car forum, wouldn't you be happy if there's a professional repair guy on there that knows a shitload about cars and has been repairing all different types of cars and different types of models for years and years ? I certainly would be.

[Hades]

And just a last bit of well meant advice innovine :

Like Mattias said earlier in this topic : why is it so hard to be a little more humble and listen seriously to solid advice given ?
I mean, only reason my recoil stabilizers are still there is cause they can't really do any harm to my sound, and they keep the tweeters of my Focals on my ear level (my stands can't go higher).
But sure enough, I realize now I definitely overpaid for this "decoupling solution" and there are better ways to isolate my speakers.
This is by listening to stuff Steve and Mattias posted. And by later on looking up stuff myself to check if they were really right.

The sound of your speakers will be influenced by those boxes around them.
I invite you to post a new topic somewhere saying "is it a good idea to put my monitors in boxes ?",
(but by all means : please try and do it on a serious producers forum, not some DJ or hi-fi forum)
and then see what the replies are.

You can always just do as you please, it's a free world, but having a blasé opinion as soon as someone tries to give you some serious advice is not gonna make your posts hold much value in the future.
Things will always go wrong in the world, people will always sooner or later argue or make mistakes, but it's exactly in how you deal with those mistakes, in how you behave in a discussion or argument that one truely shows his own nature.

[Hades]

- Want a midi keyboard. Looking at AKAI, NI and Novation

I can definitely recommend the Akai ones.
I have an MPK25 here I bought whenever I want some keys for somewhere on the road.
I basically almost never use it, but yeah.
Anyway, the key action of those things is really good (and I'm a classically trained pianist so I'm very picky on key action),
and the build quality in total is really solid.
Plus it integrates perfectly with Live.

I have one Novation synth here, and the build quality is definitely not as good as the Akai controllers (got the APC40 too).
Of course, things might differ from model to model, obviously.

[Sandor]

- Want a midi keyboard. Looking at AKAI, NI and Novation

I can definitely recommend the Akai ones.
I have an MPK25 here I bought whenever I want some keys for somewhere on the road.
I basically almost never use it, but yeah.
Anyway, the key action of those things is really good (and I'm a classically trained pianist so I'm very picky on key action),
and the build quality in total is really solid.
Plus it integrates perfectly with Live.

I have one Novation synth here, and the build quality is definitely not as good as the Akai controllers (got the APC40 too).
Of course, things might differ from model to model, obviously.

Thanks for the tip. I saw the MPK49 irl and its really big . I love the build quality though. If a go with AKAI it will probably be the newer Advance. I'm also not sure yet if I want a keyboard with bells and whistles.. or maybe just keep it simple and get a good "keys only". The quality of the keys is important. As an IT guy I really love knobs, faders and lights, hahahaha.. but to be honest, maybe that will be fun for a few hours and I don't really need it. My workflow is mostly keyboard and mouse and a little bit of Push. The main reason to get a keyboard is that I want to learn how to play, so the keys must be good quality.. all the other stuff is just bonus.

[Hades]

if you want to know how to play keys you must take "semi-weighted" or "hammerweighted", NOT "synth action" (the keys of those are far too light to properly learn any playing on).
except for real electronical piano's and stage "performer" piano's/synths (like my XV88), you'll won't find hammerweighted action a lot,
but the akai MPK25 definitely feels like semi-weighted.

[Mattias]

Some really nice setups here

I do everything in the computer. Used to use my mac, but now PC. Use mac for DJing still.

1601509_800112703385304_8359496768757559964_n.jpg

10801668_800112686718639_8906527097417291201_n.jpg

Production gear:
- Core i5 machine
- LG 34" 21:9 monitor
- Focusrite 2i4
- Yamaha HS7
- Xone K2 controller
- Ableton Push
- AKG 702
- HD25

DJ Gear:
- 21 year old SL1200s MK2 (3x) in storage for now (lack of space)
- 2x Pioneer 2000 nexus
- 2x Traktor X1 MK2
- Traktor F1
- Allen & Heath DB2
- KRK RP5 G3
- Maschine mk1 (borrowed from a friend)


I only started producing a year ago.. still learning and still have a long way to go. Have a few things I want to change on the production gear:

- Need a proper room (I will be moving to a bigger house where I will have one room for all my gear)
- Monitors off my desk.. and out of the corner.
- Want a midi keyboard. Looking at AKAI, NI and Novation
- Good amp for my AKG

Think for a year or so to sell my SL1200s to invest in my production gear.. but I'm scared of selling them I think I will regret it.

For the DJ gear I'm waiting to see what the market does. Right now I would maybe want a Xone 92, but if Allen & Heath would make something like a DB6 with send and returns I would buy that instantly. The DB2 doesn't have send returns unfortunately.
Ofcourse we all want a lot more, but for short term this would make me happy

Just take it easy with your back there. Looks like you have to bend over quite a lot to work on the laptop

[Hades]

Just take it easy with your back there. Looks like you have to bend over quite a lot to work on the laptop

I was thinking the same thing when I saw that pic.
but maybe, just maybe, he's the kind of guy that likes to bend over, you know ?

[Lost to the Void]

Can someone point out to me where innovine has been ridiculed or disrespected please?

You know, I don't have to prove myself here. It's not my job to point out where the forum sucks, its yours to make it less sucky.

Planar asked you a question but you don't give any answer, you just dodge the question.
Let's presume for a second there is this really "hostile" attitude, and you are saying you want Planar and others to make this forum a better place.
Planar just mentioned he read through a whole topic again to find examples.
Don't you think that already proves he's putting in a certain effort ?
I mean, it's not as if everyone is just waiting around, having nothing better to do than to reread rather boring topics where there's nothing much to learn from because it's mostly composed of some stupid jokes we throw about back and forth.
But yeah, he's asking you to just name some obvious examples,
then why not give some ?
Nope, you simply say it's his job to make it better instead of helping him by naming examples that he's asking for
(and which he already did an effort for to try and find, even before asking the question).


And this whole "I don't need to prove myself"...

Look, if you say something that is conceived by most people here as a rather personal point of view instead of some hard strong fact that is ruining the possible potential this forum could offer (or at least that's the impression I have from what UN!T and you are saying : our elitist and hard attitude is ruining Subsekt's potential), then why not answer the question planar asked you ?
It would help. Even if we disagree about something, it doesn't mean we won't listen to a different opinion.
But if you're dodging the question, there's not gonna be much discussion.

And another thing, and I know this is gonna sound arrogant to say, but on every forum some people's words are just gonna hold more value to others than the words of someone else.
This is personal for everyone !!
Everyone could like totally different people for totally different reasons. Some of those reasons might be on a more personal level, others might be on a more technical level.
Of course all people should be treated equal, of course, bloody hell !!
But there is always a difference between how people should be treated equal (which we can work on), and how much people will listen and take your advice and/or opinion as something valuable (which we can't work on since that's personal for everyone and differs from person to person) and which is usually also a result from what people say and how they behave and respond to certain situations.

For example : One person might think everything Steve says is just a ridiculous ramble, because they feel he's an arrogant "always knows best" kind of guy.
I personally don't have that impression though I can understand how people can perceive him as being so, I had the same feeling for a very short while when I first arrived here, I just think those people haven't read enough of his posts to see who he really is (or are simply too easily offended). For me, as a pure amateur, someone like Steve saying something serious (not talking about the having a laugh shit now) about a technical aspect usually holds more value than what someone else might say.
It doesn't mean I won't read other people's posts about something or I'll blindly do what he says.

Or to give another example : UN!T knows his shit. He does. He's giving really valid logical replies to help out others with their technical problems.
So if I see UN!T post something technical, I'll be more inclined to appreciate that post than what some others here might have posted.
(doesn't mean I think his sig is a good idea though)
I've seen someone here arrive a few months ago and most of the posts I see are just pics or whatever.
Sure, they're fun, but that doesn't help out a lot, you know ?

It's pretty simple really : if you're a car maniak, and you're on some car forum, wouldn't you be happy if there's a professional repair guy on there that knows a shitload about cars and has been repairing all different types of cars and different types of models for years and years ? I certainly would be.

You know, I really don't think I know best.
The thing is I have literally been doing this my whole life.
I've been involved in music as the centre of my life and job, in one form of another, for about 22 years or so.
I haven't come to my conclusions out of thin air, I've simply fucked up so much and so many times, and learned from many many mistakes.
So if I recognise a mistake or a problem and then make a comment or suggestion, it's generally because I've already encountered that problem.
If I reach a problem then I attack the problem, I don't come from the Internet generation, so when I attack a problem I still tend to do so practically.
For example, when I was involved in soundsystems, at first I just played on them and set them up, but I was never really happy with the sound. I had a lot of production knowledge, but I didn't really know how to translate that knowledge to the engineering of a soundsystem. So I asked my partner how to do it, then I went to some other much more experienced guys and got their take on on it, and once I did, I got some books, then I started trying it out at the parties, until eventually my partner left me to engineer the rig because I was doing a better job. Then pother soundsystems starting getting me to engineer their rigs at our parties. Then I got a job as a rig engineer for a company some of my guys worked for as riggers. And from there I went from club sound installs to live sound, where I applied my years of working in bands and recording bands from when I worked in a recording studio to my soundsystem skills. Then when I learned more I started doing installation consultation, where we were working with new clubs and bars as they were being built, dealing with the architects to work out best speaker placement and acoustics and so on. And then I got fucked off with soundsystems, left it all and went back to making music again.
I learned a shit ton in that, all of it via mistakes, fuck ups, tryng again, talking to people who did know, reading etc.
I'm intense learning nerd essentially, if I'm in to something, I dive in all the way.
It may come of as arrogance but I'm really not arrogant at all, I'm constantly doubting my own abilities and knowledge and I always want to know more and do better, be better.
I am very blunt for sure, but if I don't know about shit then I don't comment.
And I still may be wrong, or have different take, but as adults we can disagree and it doesn't have to lead to war or tears.


I have no interest at all in the euro mod trend.
So I don't comment on it if people ask questions, leave that to unit.
If I do have any questions, I know who to talk to though.

[Sandor]

Just take it easy with your back there. Looks like you have to bend over quite a lot to work on the laptop

I only look at the screen, I don't touch it, I have controllers for that.

[Hades]

It may come of as arrogance but I'm really not arrogant at all, I'm constantly doubting my own abilities and knowledge and I always want to know more and do better, be better.
I am very blunt for sure, but if I don't know about shit then I don't comment.
And I still may be wrong, or have different take, but as adults we can disagree and it doesn't have to lead to war or tears.

the whole damn post was pretty good, but see what I'm trying to say ?
does Steve now still come across as some arrogant prick that knows everything better ?
I think not, but if you guys do,
let's agree to disagree cause it doesn't get any better than this and I'm sure we all have better things to do than spend hours typing all this shit.

[Lost to the Void]

When I read about ridicule etc I did actually go back and do some investigation in to how innovine was treated.
We all take the piss out of each other, but if someone does feel like they have been done over then we should take notice.
I don't think actually by my own post searches that he has been ridiculed, I think mainly he got hurt over the whole Whoretits? sound affair, if you are in to something and everyone takes a dump from a height on it, then obviously it is going to annoy you.
This is a forum that was set up as a reaction to minimal pliplop, so to some extent you need to expect a little heat if you turn up wearing a . t shirt.
Personally I am going to stay away from any threads discussing that stuff now, I don't hang out on pop music forums because I can't stand it, so why should I comment on minimal topics really? I don't want to hurt anyone at the end of the day.

It might be prudent to set up a little sticky explaining this forum is more geared towards techno, rather than minimal, just to avoid any sake bar kids getting pricked.

Incidentally I did write to innovine explaining myself a little and offering a peace pipe, I'm not here to kick ass.
But one of the things I discovered in searching his posts was his generally prickly attitude on occasion, even to newer members, so he has in turn agitated people himself, something which no one has overreacted to, so if you give, you got to expect to get back.

Really we are all adults. None of this is out of hand considering how bad forums can get, with flame wars and harsh personal attacks, so we can move past it, learn and adapt to each other, but most of all COMMUNICATE. I'm all about confronting problems. If I have a problem, I send a pm and talk it out.

I will do my best to use softer language, as inflection is lost on the Internet and smileys just come across as an excuse and failure of language, so my intent is quite often lost or misrepresented.

In my circles, we break balls, we test each other, but just when you are about to react (either with a laugh or with an argument) the ball breaker genuinely hands you a pint or a shot, or a spliff or whatever, with a smile.
Can't do that here.

It never ends up with joe Pesci reacting to one to many "shine my shoes boy" comments and then brutal murder.

So in respect to all this, we can talk things through.

This is turning in to epic hades level posts but

Generally, all my really close mates are people who on first meet I butted heads with. I come from a culture of high risk, my background in raves, what with dealing with organised crime, the police, muggers and junkies, you needed to make sure you can really trust someone. And I mean REALLY trust. So you work out their mettle early on. Test em and see how they react. Work out if you can trust them. If they have solid convictions, strong character and so on.
Someone who gets butt hurt easily has no handle in their own ego, so people like that would maybe be an aqquantence, but never a proper friend, same thing with cowards, or snidey fuckers, those gimps who pick pick, indirectly, but never confront. Not people you can trust in a pinch or ever open up too.
But we needed to know, if a gangster pulled a blade when you were trying to eject them and theirs from a party, that your mates would have your back, literally. It was vital in fact.

I have carried that through in life, and whilst I no longer go in to situations where the possibility of ending up in hospital or prison is a weekly hazard, a softer form of this testing behaviour has enabled me to make great friends whom I can truly trust, and it allows me to work out quickly who to do business with in the music biz. I don't do a thing half assed.

I get that it can come across a little strong sometimes, I think I've locked horns with most people on here at some point, in a soft way, hades for example, initially. But once that's out the way, communication becomes easy and relaxed, and an understanding of no malice is achieved ( hopefully), and I think we all get on fine, the regulars. None of it has any venom.

This is precisely why I feel I can talk about shit like this here. I'm like the electron closest to the nucleus, I'm very fussy about my company.

So. Phew
Shake it out.
Confession done.

End of session.

Worth every penny doctor, I'll see you next week for my appointment,

[Planar]

A very noble post Steve, but I don't think much needs to change. When we start self censoring to avoid offence is when this place is really in the shitter. So we don't have an anonymous throng of people posting everyday, so what? It's a tight community and contrary to some opinions I think it's very friendly if you can get your head around the sense of humour. I lurk a few other forums and don't post because it's too easy to be lost in the crowd. This works both ways.

This whole Innovine thing really doesn't warrant a load of reflective philosophising, especially as you've looked into the history of what happened and his own brand of posting. It's all become a little absurd. Everyone should move on, and if he comes back hopefully he can as well.

Other genres should have dedicated threads, the DnB one works really well.

[Hades]

Incidentally I did write to innovine explaining myself a little and offering a peace pipe, I'm not here to kick ass.
But one of the things I discovered in searching his posts was his generally prickly attitude on occasion, even to newer members, so he has in turn agitated people himself, something which no one has overreacted to, so if you give, you got to expect to get back.
...
Really we are all adults. None of this is out of hand considering how bad forums can get, with flame wars and harsh personal attacks, so we can move past it, learn and adapt to each other, but most of all COMMUNICATE. I'm all about confronting problems. If I have a problem, I send a pm and talk it out.

I will do my best to use softer language, as inflection is lost on the Internet and smileys just come across as an excuse and failure of language, so my intent is quite often lost or misrepresented.
...
So in respect to all this, we can talk things through.
...
I get that it can come across a little strong sometimes, I think I've locked horns with most people on here at some point, in a soft way, hades for example, initially. But once that's out the way, communication becomes easy and relaxed, and an understanding of no malice is achieved ( hopefully), and I think we all get on fine, the regulars. None of it has any venom.

exactly.
I clearly remember one moment where I was about to book the fastest flight to London and kick his ass just cause Steve's words on a very sensitive topic made me go berserk (at least in my mind).
(and he probably felt exactly the same way about my words)
Then I thought about my reply for a longer time, wrote one of my extremely long posts (again), Steve wrote a very thoughtful reply, and we understood one another, and I PM'ed Steve to thank him for his complete gentleman-way of dealing with something that could have gone completely out of hand.
Now I can even talk about the same topic with him and we both know what we mean with our words.
And no, obviously, we're not just talking about some stupid monitor stabilizers.


point is : communication. If you're not going to discuss stuff, then only misunderstandings are going to pop up like mushrooms between alume's toes.

In my circles, we break balls, we test each other, but just when you are about to react (either with a laugh or with an argument) the ball breaker genuinely hands you a pint or a shot, or a spliff or whatever, with a smile.
Can't do that here.

Generally, all my really close mates are people who on first meet I butted heads with. I come from a culture of high risk, my background in raves, what with dealing with organised crime, the police, muggers and junkies, you needed to make sure you can really trust someone. And I mean REALLY trust. So you work out their mettle early on. Test em and see how they react. Work out if you can trust them. If they have solid convictions, strong character and so on.
Someone who gets butt hurt easily has no handle in their own ego, so people like that would maybe be an aqquantence, but never a proper friend, same thing with cowards, or snidey fuckers, those gimps who pick pick, indirectly, but never confront. Not people you can trust in a pinch or ever open up too.
But we needed to know, if a gangster pulled a blade when you were trying to eject them and theirs from a party, that your mates would have your back, literally. It was vital in fact.

I have carried that through in life, and whilst I no longer go in to situations where the possibility of ending up in hospital or prison is a weekly hazard, a softer form of this testing behaviour has enabled me to make great friends whom I can truly trust, and it allows me to work out quickly who to do business with in the music biz. I don't do a thing half assed.
...
I'm like the electron closest to the nucleus, I'm very fussy about my company.

I can totally dig that approach to life. Life's simply too short to waste time with people that aren't truely worth it.
And this is definitely one way to know rather soon if it's a person to continue with in life or not.

This is turning in to epic hades level posts but

ow no, I refuse to claim the monopoly on epic long posts any longer. I think meanwhile there have been quite a few times where others have showed a same level of lenghty posts.
if we're talking about general length however...

So. Phew
Shake it out.
Confession done.

End of session.

Worth every penny doctor, I'll see you next week for my appointment,

like I always said : subsekt is cheaper than therapy

[Mslwte]

Don't worry hades, you are known to have the longest on the forum..