surgeon/regis/stoll synth

[Mslwte]

does anyone have tips on how these guys get that metalic synth sound?

it would be nice to understand what makes it sound the way it does?

[Mslwte]

something like this

youtu.be/6Rus_2neiZg

i get that theres distortion there but i would like to know whats in front of behind the distortion?

[rollah]

alright man

sounds like to me that its a 303 type sound, maybe sampled probably and thats got a grainy shitty reverb on it.

I think what makes it sound cool is the reverb. sounds like the predelay has been whacked back to give that double tap delay. cant be sure but it doent change throughout the track. expept the the release on the sample maybe but you can still hear the reverb. It doesnt sound like a delay to me cos its too far back. Maybe someone else can comment on this.

Lives reverb will do that job nicely for you mslwte. Jst pull back the size of the room to make it sound shit. I tried making a quick track to try it and it sound ok for me but I cant get that pattern on the synth rright but i think the rest of it is fitne.

Cool track man. Filth

[formetoknow]

alot of regis tracks, and early dynamic tension by surgeon, from what I can tell, are generally percussive heavy tracks;
909 based, with different channels, ie: kick snare hat etc... are run through different levels of distortion to create a crunchy bass kick, and that the penetrating crackle on the hi hats. I think in that 'speak to me track', you could find it not be a synth at all. Im not saying that it is what i genuinely think it is, but if you listen carefully it could sound like a milli second sample of a saxophone put through a series of effects. the reason why i say this is because when creating tracks its always good to keep in mind all the options available to you to get the sound you want.

i think the same applies to Female. some of his tracks sound heavy sample based,trigegrd by a drum machine through cv with the release cut don on the samples to create, an almost, collarge of sounds trigged in a rhythmical pattern

happy producing!

[Críoch]

yeah - a lot of regis' stuff was covered in samples.

EDIT: The MS10 has to be "The Synth" from all Regis' harder synth driven stuff.

Totally formetoknow - it could be ANYTHING. Fk around with samples & add some choice fx and they can sound like anything.

The idea with the reverb is spot on to my ears. I'd try that too if I wanted to get ballpark

Heres a bit of a kit list from 1994 - 2000

SCI Pro One
SCI Multitrack
Boss SE 50 x2
Boss Dr. Rhythm DR-110
Akai X 7000
Akai 950 s
Tascam DA-88
Tascam M2600
Philips Pocket Memo 596
Roland TR-808
Doepfer MAQ16/3
Korg MS10
Fender Jaguar
Ensoniq DP4

[Mslwte]

thanks for the replied guys!

youve all given me something to go on, tbh my last few tracks i havent used synths much at all most of it has been processing drum/Porc sounds. adding effects to Porc sounds can give some great results ive thought that it might of been done this way before but untill someone tells you, you never fkn know lol

nice to see that kit list john

[Críoch]

lol

Where canz I DL me a Fender Jaguar?

[Mslwte]

lol

Where canz I DL me a Fender Jaguar?

im surprised that he used a guitar? i dont hear a guitar on his tracks but ill listen closer.

and i hate fkn guitars

[Críoch]

on the penetration album.. theres a couple of noisy, hissy hummy tracks. Theres one where you can hear a pick-up or a jack plug being touched.. going through a spring reverb.

Maybe he just bought the guitar for the lead

[pleb]

alot of regis tracks, and early dynamic tension by surgeon, from what I can tell, are generally percussive heavy tracks;
909 based, with different channels, ie: kick snare hat etc... are run through different levels of distortion to create a crunchy bass kick, and that the penetrating crackle on the hi hats. I think in that 'speak to me track', you could find it not be a synth at all. Im not saying that it is what i genuinely think it is, but if you listen carefully it could sound like a milli second sample of a saxophone put through a series of effects. the reason why i say this is because when creating tracks its always good to keep in mind all the options available to you to get the sound you want.

i think the same applies to Female. some of his tracks sound heavy sample based,trigegrd by a drum machine through cv with the release cut don on the samples to create, an almost, collarge of sounds trigged in a rhythmical pattern

happy producing!

formetoknow - man youve given me a lot to think about there. very interestin post

have huge admiration for both regis and female. all downwards shit really. nice to get an insight into what they did. that idea of samples triggered by a drum machine thats cool. does anyone know of any interviews or anything with those artists that talk about the techniques that they used ?

nice one icn for the equipement list. goin to do some lookin into this.

[formetoknow]

the gear they would have used in earlier releases would have most probably been analogue gear and other hardware.
such as an 808 - 909 that are very pricey, around £1k and £1.5k. + decent effects and compressors limiters; they are probably working with £5-10 grand + studio.

I produce with 24bit samples taken from a real 898 and 909, and the sound is adequate.
i think buying and analogue synthesizer matters more than buying a drum machine if your looking for that real sound.
but with clever use of what's in front of you can produce amazing results


I don't release my music, i only play it live, but when I get time ill make a downwards style drum loop using the 909 and 808 samples with a list of effects and you can have a listen. obviously, downwards are downwards, and i wouldn't like to compare myself to that level and standard, but i just think it may be useful to you.

[formetoknow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc6I8aIPf30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

just knocked this up, only using 2 drum machines with 909 and 808 samples(one drum machine with effects and one just for a few clean deep extra bass kicks, with slight reverb for depth. ) and the other put through a series of distortion.
and the master going through slight delay revererb, and, another different, reverb on top of that.

only did this in a short space for time and obviously needs proper attention to compression etc, but i hope this will bring
some insight as to what can be achieved with only drum machines, and good ear for effects.

[Críoch]

Great thread!!

Thats class. Checked out your other tracks too.. love your sound. Thanks so much for going to the trouble to do that.

Is it all ITB for you then? The Drum Machine with the effects.. do you have each of the channels shooting out to their own channels / effects? or are they just slapped on one channel as an insert?

are there multiple instances of distortion plugs, rather than one?

Would you have them 100% wet, or are you going subtle and maybe ease off a bit?

lol - Sorry for all the questions, but myself & James have been talking about downwards production techniques for what seems like years now (ffs) and its just exciting to find someone else to have a conversation with.

I'm sure he'll back me up on this

The other thing we were talking about recently was how they used filters. We think that you can get something pretty close if you get a decent loop etc.. and stick something basic, like an EQ3 from Live - which obviously spilts stuff up into bands. You can kill and fade etc.. Its rough and cool.

Its refreshing listening to that music, where there are fcuk all risers or spot fx etc.. The music just delivers all the time. No need for it or to rely on it all the time either.

[rollah]

cool technique and example formetoknow. thanks for going to the bother to share that man.

[Ant]

This is great stuff, thanks for sharing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc6I8aIPf30

just knocked this up, only using 2 drum machines with 909 and 808 samples(one drum machine with effects and one just for a few clean deep extra bass kicks, with slight reverb for depth. ) and the other put through a series of distortion.
and the master going through slight delay revererb, and, another different, reverb on top of that.

only did this in a short space for time and obviously needs proper attention to compression etc, but i hope this will bring
some insight as to what can be achieved with only drum machines, and good ear for effects.

[Mslwte]

lol

Where canz I DL me a Fender Jaguar?

im surprised that he used a guitar? i dont hear a guitar on his tracks but ill listen closer.

and i hate fkn guitars

It's funny cos I hear guitars all over Regis music now. Fkn love guitars

[Críoch]

Well.. did he or did he not - have that guitar FX pedal & a Jack plug during Boiler Room there a few weeks ago?

That same old technique, used a different way..

Fucking cool it was.

[nervejammer]

John - that kit list you posted is interesting - I think the Speak to me synth is possibly a sample of the sci multitrack with a touch distortion. I have a sci six track at home, I think they were both pretty similar machines in that they have a number of voices that could be forced into unison - which gives a real meaty noise - pitty my one has a fecked battery or I could have done a wee experiment....

[Lost to the Void]

I remember surgeon used a really obscure drum machine for his early stuff.

Mainly there's a lot of drive and grit on the sounds.
For the more metallic stuff you want fm, or a synth that does very basic fm, getting metallic synth sounds with fm is easy.

There is a whole synth dedicated to it that I recommended.
Image line ogun

Tony tended to be more and synth based, Karl is/was the sample king.
His tunes are full of loops created from post punk, industrial and no wave.

[Críoch]

Yeah.. the very drum machine was being sold a while back. Cheetah MD16.

Sir Real talks about a Korg Poly800 as "The Synth".


Review of Cheetah MD16 on SOS: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... heetahmd16.

Hopefully this won't be considered spam and removed, as although it is an item for sale, I guess it fits in with this forum quite nicely. So yeah, I am selling my Cheetah MD16 drum machine complete with the 'electro kit' and 'total percussion +' cartridges. It's the very machine (yes, the actual one) that techno legend Surgeon (aka Anthony Child) used, along with a Korg Poly800 synth, to record all of his first few releases...including the classics "Electronically Tested", "Magneze", "Pet 2000" and I'm sure more after that, my memory is hazy from the time but pretty sure he used it on "Communications" and "Muggerscum Out" and possibly more.

I lived with Tony for many years, and we shared a studio...and the Cheetah was and is my drum machine, which he used as he didn't have one at the time. It's techno pedigree is impeccable, and if necessary I will be able to provide documentation from the man himself to prove its history (note the 'HOG' sticker on the machine itself, I was and am still a resident DJ at the club - I am Sir Real - along with Tony).

This is a reluctant sale, but the machine has been sitting in my studio unused for years now, and I would like someone to get some use out of it. It's a pretty rare item these days, regardless of its provenance, and the cartridges are rare as hens teeth as well.

Here's a bit of technical info:

It comes with two very rare sound cartridges (the essential 'electro kit' and very useful 'total percussion +') making it a real workhorse of a drum sound module, if nothing else. All the sounds are hugely editable within the machine, and if you like that sort of thing, you can also get the unit circuit bent for a paltry £70 opening the possibilities up even more. It comes with 8 audio outputs as standard, which makes it awesome for live work as you can put each sound through its own channel on a mixing desk for live tweaking and adding further FX etc. It was serviced shortly before I stopped using it, and had its internal transformer replaced. I know it's a bit grubby at the moment (it's been sitting around for a long time), but I will clean it up before I ship it, and I guarantee that it all works fine. I will ship it with the original power supply, and the leads that I made up myself for the audio outputs (which are from four stereo jacks).

See here for the tech lowdown (and an admittedly biased opinion of its star quality as a drum machine) -

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... hmd16.html

Surely the drum machine that spawned Surgeon classics such as 'Magneze' and 'Badger Bite' (not to mention many of my own lesser-known releases) must have a degree of worth in the techno memorabilia section if nothing else?

Its probably been circuit bent to fuckery now. Should have bought it probably to save it.

Goldbaby have a free MD16 sample pack.. http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/freestuff.html