Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
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arc
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Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

What are your thoughts and ideas on sound design? How do you turn the sounds in your head into actual synth or sampler patches?

Do you actually hear sounds in your head or do you just imagine sounds by their characteristics? (For example: "metallic & percussive" or "sparkling crystals" or "the sound of a million wasps swarming")

Or maybe you're like me and you don't have any ideas for sounds and just tweak parameters in a synth until you have something that sounds good?

I ask because lately I've been trying to be more deliberate with my synthesizer programming. I want to formulate a sound in my head and be able to squeeze that sound out of a synth in a methodical way.

It's interesting to critique techno in this way. Did the artist who created this track create these sounds deliberately or did they just fiddle around in Reaktor? I personally feel that this is what separates the truly great techno artists from the amateurs.

Thoughts?
Last edited by arc on Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

Also, I realize that techno makes heavy use of very abstract sounds and traditional sound design theory doesn't always apply. But do you have methods for achieving the abstract sounds too or do you just twist knobs until you have a texture or beat that sounds good?

Some of the newer synthesizers like AALTO and Iris can create some very abstract sounds, how do you program these synths in a meaningful way without sitting there for an hour tweaking parameters just to ultimately end up with useless noise?

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Sound Design - Philosophy and Technique

Post by Lost to the Void »

I have the stuff in my head and try my best to replicate what is there.
I`ve never been much of a twiddler, I generally know what I want.

The main problem with this way of working is the ideas come at the most inappropriate time. But maybe abletons autio to midi will help me more as I can record my ideas with a dictaphone and then convert to midi when in the studio.

I`ve tried working with people who are pure twiddlers, they just start out with nothing and mess and mess and mess and twiddle until something happens. Serendiptity. It is an interesting way of working but I find it really frustrating working with people like this, as I just want to get on with things.
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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

Interesting.

Do you usually start off with a blank patch in a synth and program the sounds from scratch or do you find a preset that sounds similar and tweak it to match the sound in your head?

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by Lost to the Void »

Depends on the sound really.
I work with granular synthesis more and more now, so more often than not I create my sounds out of stuff I have captured with my field recorder, but starting with a preset or a blank patch, either or, if I can`t find a preset close to what I want then I start from scratch.
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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

Yeah, using samples usually ends up with very good results.

For me, hearing sounds in my head, which I rarely do, is a very fragile thing for me. A lot of the times, the things I hear in my head are just echoes of sounds I've heard in other places, either from music or everyday life (nothing original). This is a problem because if I actually do think of a sound that seems interesting, I have to be careful not to lose the idea because it can easily be erased if I listen to music or start messing with a synth. The sounds I hear in my head are fleeting and get easily masked by what's entering my ears.

This is why I try to think in more concrete terms - imagining sounds by their character. Obviously thinking in this way leaves a lot more to the imagination, but it helps to keep ideas from being lost.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by Lost to the Void »

Well, I don`t mean I just use samples, I generally generate sounds from them using granular synthesis. As I tend to find the textures I want in sounds in the "real world" but not the specific sounds.
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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

Yeah I understand that. I'm just saying that using samples as oscillators seems to create much more interesting sounds than just using the standard oscillator waveforms. When I want to try to get some really strange sounds I'll throw some field recordings into a sampler and modulate the shit out of them.

Like Izotope's Iris for instance. You'd be hard pressed to create the sounds that thing makes in any analog emulation VST because they simply lack the modulation capabilities. When you only have 2 oscillators, 2 envelopse, 2 LFOs, etc., there's only so many possibilities for sound creation.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by chrisso »

I'm big on twiddling regarding sound design. I do not waste time fiddling with production though. I have a clear goal in mind regarding the final production. But as far as sound design goes, accidents tend to be far more interesting and unique than anything I have in my mind.
Many times I will set out to craft a bass sound, and while tweaking towards the desired result, a knob twiddle will yield a much better lead sound.
Sometimes i will start a track by mindlessly twiddling my modular system until something original pops up.
Half way through a production I might record an entire take of mad knob twiddling on an audio track, which often yields a great rhythmic part, or some interesting fx, or just some good timbre I can add for texture.
My love for hardware (synths and fx) revolves around happy accidents, or the weird relationship between elements that can throw up something unique and interesting. One of my issues with software is that there are few accidents when you have to input all the data cold, and the designer has usually crafted the product so it doesn't act unpredictably - except for plug-ins like Permut and Relectro.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

So you approach sound design as a separate activity from production? I guess that makes sense, so as to keep yourself from endlessly tweaking knobs and never making any music.

I'm also like you in that most of my sounds are accidents. I spend a lot of time just browsing factory presets until I find something that needs minor tweaking to work in track I'm working on. And I agree that recording your automation so your synth evolves through the track is essential to making your track interesting to the listener. I don't own any modular gear, but I'll record myself just jamming on a VST and sometimes some really nice textures or sequences will jump out.

The funny thing is that most techno doesn't use sounds that are special in any way. Mostly chord stabs and pads mixed with funky percussion. So I guess sound design really isn't as important in techno as I think it is. Creative use of effects and layering different sounds/instruments is more effective than synth programming.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by Lost to the Void »

arc wrote:
The funny thing is that most techno doesn't use sounds that are special in any way. Mostly chord stabs and pads mixed with funky percussion. So I guess sound design really isn't as important in techno as I think it is.

You sir, are listening to the wrong techno if you think that.
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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

Lost to the Void wrote:
arc wrote:
The funny thing is that most techno doesn't use sounds that are special in any way. Mostly chord stabs and pads mixed with funky percussion. So I guess sound design really isn't as important in techno as I think it is.

You sir, are listening to the wrong techno if you think that.
Maybe.

You're going to make me eat my words here.

I guess I say that because a lot of techno bores me lately. Even when it seems like the artist is really pushing the envelope in terms of sound design, the tracks they are making are boring and completely uninteresting.

I take that back though. Sound design is very important in techno. ;p

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by arc »

Here's an example of a track that doesn't use too much sound design (I think). Mostly basic sounds that can be found as presets in any modern VST or synth, some vocal samples and masterful percussion all used in a musical way. (I love this track by the way.)



And here's a track uses the most abstract noises you've ever heard. You can tell Rrose put a lot of work into creating the sounds on this track. (I'm not really a fan of this track but I'm posting it as an example.)

youtu.be/Gn6rJM1qyOY

So what I mean by my statement you quoted me on, is that techno doesn't really benefit from the use of really abstract noises and effects. It's more about being musical with synths than anything else, if that makes any sense.

Sorry, I'm trying to keep the discussion flowing but I feel like I'm starting to be a little pretentious here. Excuse me if what I'm saying doesn't make sense or seems like utter bullshit.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by ste »

well you compare fruit with vegetable here ;)
techno can benefit from musicality and synthwork and techno can benefit from abstract noises. it's not one way to make techno. there is no such thing as a way to make good techno. it's hundred of ways.

if you want to talk about the importance of sounddesign in techno then you need to compare 2 tracks of the exact same style. but one with elaborate effects and sophisticated details and the other with simple generic sounds.but still.. the same kind of techno.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by ozias_leduc »

arc wrote:Here's an example of a track that doesn't use too much sound design (I think). Mostly basic sounds that can be found as presets in any modern VST or synth, some vocal samples and masterful percussion all used in a musical way. (I love this track by the way.)



And here's a track uses the most abstract noises you've ever heard. You can tell Rrose put a lot of work into creating the sounds on this track. (I'm not really a fan of this track but I'm posting it as an example.)

youtu.be/Gn6rJM1qyOY

So what I mean by my statement you quoted me on, is that techno doesn't really benefit from the use of really abstract noises and effects. It's more about being musical with synths than anything else, if that makes any sense.

Sorry, I'm trying to keep the discussion flowing but I feel like I'm starting to be a little pretentious here. Excuse me if what I'm saying doesn't make sense or seems like utter bullshit.
different tastes. i think rrose is cool, and it's this kind of atmospheric "otherworldliness" i need in techno. the first track you posted just sounds so bland.. like it's just for the body and not the mind. i don't hear the art in this.

personally i need the techno with sculpted sounds.. i need to be drawn into an atmosphere.. and you need sound design to do that.

of course there is plenty of stuff with impressive sound design that is still boring.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by chrisso »

arc wrote:So you approach sound design as a separate activity from production?
Not really. They both go hand in hand.
I'm just saying I can agree with Steve on not wasting time looking for accidental strokes of genius to finish a production, but at the same time I find mindless tweaking and the odd happy accident a really powerful process in my own music. I also set out to create a specific sound quite a bit as well. Essentially (for me) it's all good.
I'm also like you in that most of my sounds are accidents.
Not 'most of my sounds', many of my most unique and most interesting sounds are probably a result of looking for one thing and finding something else.
Creative use of effects and layering different sounds/instruments is more effective than synth programming.
Again, it's probably all relevant. 99% of my synth sounds are crafted from scratch using hardware. I actually find that the most enjoyable part of the process.
I'd rather patch my modular, or turn on a mono synth to make a bass sound from scratch, than scroll through Massive or FM8 pre-sets. That's just me. Others will create better techno than me by layering pre-sets from soft synths I'm sure

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by ozias_leduc »

for me it's about exploration. something between knowing what i want and blind experimentation.

i know where i want to look, but not what i will find.

the idea of layering pre made sounds makes me feel bored just thinking about it.

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Re: Sound Design - Philosophy and Technique

Post by helloitsmeagain »

Lost to the Void wrote:But maybe abletons autio to midi will help me more as I can record my ideas with a dictaphone and then convert to midi when in the studio.
give it a try: http://www.abletonop.com/2011/11/conver ... ibilities/
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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by strawMan »

Great discussion.

arc - for me sound design is integral to the modern techno experience - I've very recently started buying records after a three or four year hiatus, and I'm astounded by how subjectively far the sound design (and techno) has come - Xhin, Rrose, Francesco Baudazzi... (it could be that it was like that before, but my ears have grown).

I think your personal approach to designing sound is one of the most important aspects in distinguishing yourself from other artists, literally making you "sound" unique.

In terms of my production process, it's a mixed bag of shooting for something in my head, and arriving at three or four sound objects that bear no relation to the intended.
Like arc mentioned some posts back, it's hard for me to keep the original intent when my ears are hearing something else happening.

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Re: Sound Design - Theory and Technique

Post by Cloaked »

Agree, fantastic discussion and close to my thoughts atm!

As strawMan says, modern techno - the good, artfully made and acclaimed stuff at least - is now defined by sound design as much as anything else, which is IMO wicked.

personally I'm not a guy who can visualise abstract drones, I'm a twiddler - which gets me so far, but i'm still never happy with the sounds i make, hence why i don't even finish techno tracks anymore. sure, i've got this huge kick, cavernous bass, percs and some kind of hook, yadayada, but exactly as ozias said above i know in my heart "it's just for the body and not the mind. i don't hear the art in it." until I can sit down and craft MY own sounds that sound like ME i'm not going any further with my techno. it's not pushing any timbral envelopes.

in truth i doubt a bit what steve said there actually, i can't get how ANYONE can pre-visualise these kind of atonal percs and textures because they have no precedence in the real world.


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