One Rule I Should Just Learn

[chrisso]

I've found one thing I should learn from.
If I'm using a lot of automation and fx, my track is not good enough.
I've seen other producers using complicated automation schemes and it works, but for me it's a sign I'm trying to change a sow's ear into a silk purse.
I started a track a couple of weeks ago that has virtually no automation and virtually no fx (reverbs, panners, flangers, delays etc). I'm very happy with it (for me) and it's ready for a final mix.
I have another track I've been working on for weeks. It's been 90% there most of that time, but I've never found the last 10% polish, despite lot's of fx and automation. Finally, out of frustration, I ditched most of the drums and even the core idea (a synth chord part I started the track with), and having replaced all the drums, and created a new core riff, I'm really pleased with the track.
This has happened to me several times.
So my rule (which seems to work for me, maybe not you) is if I'm spending all my time piling on fx, and writing complicated automation into Ableton, the core idea is likely the issue. The idea that sparked me to create the piece is an idea that has most likely paled over time.

[kuba_rubacha]

happens to me a lot...more than a lot,it happens all the time.Ive recently decided to just move on ans if i have a mad.notion to.change something.all of a sudden just go and do it.It works well so far,track im workin on now is in my opinion my best yet(what did you think id say its the worst:-P).Its all a part of the creating process.


Rome wasnt built in a day;-)

[Críoch]

Yeah, thats a really good observation Chrisso.

Basically, if it no longer works for you, how can you stand over it - or even finish it.

This has happened to me in the past (and will again) - but now I've changed the way I approach things, so rather than making a kick / bass first, I'm concentrating on the synths / top half 1st.. then go back down & sort out the kick / bass. It seems a lot more straightforward that way.

I think the issue is that you can knock yerself out making everything the bestest & most cunning you possibly can, but very often, the syncopation between elements in simple patterns creates something useful. Everything in its own space in the mix & place in the rhythm; thats my rule.

I know thats what you do too Chrisso - you are an experienced guy.. but yeah, this is my rule haha

[Esh]

but now I've changed the way I approach things, so rather than making a kick / bass first, I'm concentrating on the synths / top half 1st.. then go back down & sort out the kick / bass. It seems a lot more straightforward that way.

Sound plan......might take that approach. Or just work on the core idea before i do anything else.

[Patriek]

I usually leave FX untill the 'core' of the track is 'done'. After that i start tweaking with my FX, volumes etc.
But my baseline is mostly kick/sub/hats to get things going.

[Wiu]

I get bored really easily. The 100's of unfinished tracks I have saved are testament to that. I often just take days out where I'll work through them and see what's what. I'll delete some (saving any parts I like), rework others, add to others and remix others. I find it's a constantly evolving thing for me. I find it unhealthy to get bogged down with 1 track for anymore than 3 or 4 hours at a time. Even if I just take a break for half an hour or work on a different track for a while, then return. I'm never afraid to dump major parts of a track or totally fuck with things. Maybe not the best working method, but it (mostly) works for me.

Interesting method that ICN. I may give it a try as, like many others, 99% of the time I'll start with kick/bass and work on from that.

[Críoch]

I'll usually have a very simple bassline, or essentially a kick with a long / pumped tail.

Now.. I usually just make sketches, rather than complete anything haha - but in terms of listening back.. the stuff I've approached this way could be arranged if I could change the habits of a lifetime haha. I usually set myself tasks & thats what my projects are about & called, rather than being tunes. I won't rest until I've developed some kind of signature sound (that is good lol).

I think if anything, thats the overriding reason for moving on 9/10.

[chrisso]

I usually leave FX untill the 'core' of the track is 'done'. After that i start tweaking with my FX, volumes etc.

Yes, me too.
If I can get everything sounding good and grooving without fx I think I'm on to a winner.

[chrisso]

Basically, if it no longer works for you, how can you stand over it - or even finish it.

Sort of.
Although I'm not a quitter. I tend to work hard on something until I can complete it.
What I've recently realised is the multiple fx and complicated automation schemes is probably a sign (for me) that I'm heading down a cul-de-sac.
However, as I said, I'm still working on the same 6 month old track, but once I replaced most of the drums and the core riff I was able to finish it.
I couldn't finish it because i was cycling round and round with the core riff, trying to find one more element that would finish the track. The catch was the core riff I had was the thing stopping me from coming up with the final element.

[Lost to the Void]

I`m not sure, FX is so intrinsic to techno, the experimentation. Raw unprocessed sounds rarely cut it. You can go too far of course.

[chrisso]

You are right.
Although I want to have the best raw sounds to start with (synths and drums).
I also use outboard when making my original sounds.
The track I'm most happy with at the moment has no FX on it. I will add some reverb to some of the drums. Also some sidechain compression.
There already is some hardware delay on a couple of the sounds.

[strawMan]

I have found recently that (delay and reverb especially) when an effect forms an integral part of the atmosphere of a track,
things seem to gel better when they're put in place early on- so I can play through/ with them instead of try to make that effect fit around dry playing.
Seems to vibe more/ sound less "tacked on"

[ARiFF]

i like to use a different "technique" if thats what you can call it. I used to do the bass/kick/hats trick aswell, but i found that i was repeating some "working" formulas all the time without noticing it. To keep the creativity flowing what i trie (!!) to do nowadays is take a sample ( stab, fx, whatever basically... ) which i like and lay out a simple pattern over a few bars. Than i start looping those few seconds and let it run for a bit. Usually what happens is i start adding elements in my imagination or without knowing i start to tap rhythms with my fingers or feet ( i have been playing percs for quite a few years ). Earlier i wasnt exactly "aware" that i was doing these things, but ive learned to listen to myself or my body dictating the rhythm & pace. And also because im annoying a lot of people with my continuous tapping. If i can capture those, than the rest starts flowing by itself...

[Mslwte]

I think it all depends on what sound your trying to create because for me it's the fx/automation and general fucking about is what make things happen.

[Críoch]

i like to use a different "technique"..

yeah man, i like the idea of that. I sometimes like to grab a load of samples & put them in drum racks & either tap or put in random midi & see if anything jumps out. It can be good bouncing stuff & throwing it into a sampler & doing the same, assigning stuff to velocity.

[Críoch]

I think it all depends on what sound your trying to create because for me it's the fx/automation and general fucking about is what make things happen.

Theres that side too.. But you usually have your core stuff down @ the start, dont you mate?

[Mslwte]

I think it all depends on what sound your trying to create because for me it's the fx/automation and general fucking about is what make things happen.

Theres that side too.. But you usually have your core stuff down @ the start, dont you mate?

I think I work in the opposite to chrisso. I'm happy to take sounds out after a week of playing with a track and try something else. I'll make 6 different versions by the time the track is finished ha ha

[msl]

It sounds so cliche but the longer I've been at this, the more I subscribe to 'less is more' with sounds, arrangement, fx, everything.

[chrisso]

I guess my ethos from way back (and not from a techno background) is that fx can cover sloppy sound design.
So my ultimate work method is to craft raw sounds that are exciting to me, without mega compression, or massive reverbs. Of course those fx have their place. Some of my favourite tracks have simple sounds animated by massive FX doing all the work. But I also think many of the Detroit classics are quite dry and in your face.

[Mslwte]

I guess my ethos from way back (and not from a techno background) is that fx can cover sloppy sound design.
So my ultimate work method is to craft raw sounds that are exciting to me, without mega compression, or massive reverbs. Of course those fx have their place. Some of my favourite tracks have simple sounds animated by massive FX doing all the work. But I also think many of the Detroit classics are quite dry and in your face.

yeah definately! detroit can literally be a dry kick, clap and closed hat, a bassline and a couple of lead synths. on the flipside to that, the birmingham can have more noise, distortion and more Porc with loads of reverb.