Geez, look what i found at a 2nd hand corner store...

[rktic]

...an unexpected find for a turkish 2nd hand electronics store...





tempted to say the least. argl.

[Críoch]

Cool.. How much?

[Críoch]

Ahh the days of seperates? Is it 60's or 70;s?

[chrisso]

V. nice.
I recently bought a Revox B77.
On the downside, they do need to be maintained, and the tape alignment isn't completely straightforward.

[Mattias]

Nice find. You bought it I assume? They need much maintenance.

[rktic]

Guess i'd rather go for the UAD Studer solution when it comes to actual use. But it's pretty damn sexy. No idea how much they ask for it. I think it's completely refurbished.

[Lost to the Void]

Check the heads, a lot of the time they are worn to death, and there is no software that captures what tape does yet.

[ARiFF]

just wondering if you can still find tape for those... did you buy it than in the end Ronny ?

[rktic]

Voidloss, you certainly can't capture the sound of every single unit but it's definitely possible to come up with a plugin that sounds like one of many machines. Painstaking process tho. The UAD Studer is said to be spot on and considering the quality of the other plugs i guess the reviewers are right (usually trust SoS, check it out http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/uad.htm). Last not least i've been going through this process with ABL.

No - didn't buy it and i'm afraid to ask for the price. If it'd be somewhere close to reasonable i'd buy it for the sake of it

You can still find tapes at ebay, ARiFF. Even sealed ReVox tapes but for the price of a fortune...

[Lost to the Void]

Voidloss, you certainly can't capture the sound of every single unit but it's definitely possible to come up with a plugin that sounds like one of many machines. Painstaking process tho. The UAD Studer is said to be spot on and considering the quality of the other plugs i guess the reviewers are right (usually trust SoS, check it out http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/uad.htm). Last not least i've been going through this process with ABL.

No - didn't buy it and i'm afraid to ask for the price. If it'd be somewhere close to reasonable i'd buy it for the sake of it

You can still find tapes at ebay, ARiFF. Even sealed ReVox tapes but for the price of a fortune...

Never trust a sound on sound review for fucks sake.

Seriously, use some tape, then use the crappy UAD on the same material.
All it does is emulate tone.
There is none of the effervescence and fizz you get from compression via magnetic tape, the UAD just sounds like soft comp with tonal shaping.

I`ve tried everything, the only thing that comes close, the ONLY thing is Nebula 3 and maybe some aspects of tape compression are captured by the SKnote stuff.

That is why I bought and modified a Reel to Reel machine for mastering

But this can also be said of software compression, there are very few plugins that capture the open, airy sound of a good compressor.

[chrisso]

One of my work partners is an extremely experienced recording engineer and producer. He has the Studer UAD plug in and says it's exactly like listening back to drums off tape from back in the 70's and 80's.
And he was producing albums in the 70's and 80's.
I have UAD plug-ins but haven't bought the Studer, one because it is expensive, and two because it has so many different options I don't think I could use it expertly enough.

--------
As to buying tape, yes there are some current distributors. I bought brand new 1/4" tape from my local distributor a few months ago.
It ain't cheap though.

[rktic]

Voidloss, you certainly can't capture the sound of every single unit but it's definitely possible to come up with a plugin that sounds like one of many machines. Painstaking process tho. The UAD Studer is said to be spot on and considering the quality of the other plugs i guess the reviewers are right (usually trust SoS, check it out http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/uad.htm). Last not least i've been going through this process with ABL.

No - didn't buy it and i'm afraid to ask for the price. If it'd be somewhere close to reasonable i'd buy it for the sake of it

You can still find tapes at ebay, ARiFF. Even sealed ReVox tapes but for the price of a fortune...

Never trust a sound on sound review for fucks sake.

Seriously, use some tape, then use the crappy UAD on the same material.
All it does is emulate tone.
There is none of the effervescence and fizz you get from compression via magnetic tape, the UAD just sounds like soft comp with tonal shaping.

I`ve tried everything, the only thing that comes close, the ONLY thing is Nebula 3 and maybe some aspects of tape compression are captured by the SKnote stuff.

That is why I bought and modified a Reel to Reel machine for mastering

But this can also be said of software compression, there are very few plugins that capture the open, airy sound of a good compressor.

Eventhough i'm with you about the quality of many plugins i also know a number of mastering engineers (even people with +30 years of experience and a trackrecord as long as the chinese wall) which are entirely happy with a lot of plugs. The UAD Studer being one of them.

Finding the good stuff has become quite a task given the amount of choice. But there's some quality stuff out there that works alongside the sound of the best hardware devices.

In the end it's also a matter of preference. Working with hardware has its merits - still and raw. I mean, really touching something... different story

Last not least i was wondering myself already wether to get the Revox or not... Sexy beast.

[Lost to the Void]

Being happy with a plugin is not the same as getting the same results.

Many experienced engineers are happy with plugins, as the slight compromise in sound is generally compensated by ease of use, speed of operatin and overall convenience.

I think your friend from the 70 s may have simply forgotten the real sound of tape rather than performed any Empirical tests with the UAD, because to say it exactly matches a studer is nuts.

Most of the comments you read about tape emulation only address tone and saturation, they very rarely talk about the nature of tape compression, this issue gets skimmed over.

It is easy to compare the two, I have tried everything, I even got to conduct some tests at one of the repro (record producers association, now called the record producers guild) meetings, at angel studios in islington.
I got to try a few machines with various high end plugs.

Nothing got the compression sound down except the nebula. My tests were piggy backed on the back of another double blind test they were doing, regarding the differences/advantages to recording digitally over tape and vica versa.
A number of digital recording systems and tape systems were used.

This ended up very interesting, it is the only large scale test of this sort, conducted blind with a number of engineers. The results surprised everyone, there was no conclusive result. Essentially no conclusive bias either way, basically saying no one could tell the difference. However, nothing was being used here to push for archetypes of the medium, as this test was about recording and not about using limitations for effect, so everything was recorded at optimal level, there was no cooking, no converter clipping etc.

My test was about pushing tape for compresson effects.

Anyway, my results are what caused me to hunt down the right machine, source the right valves, clean up the internal recording path, source the most appropriate heads, convert the machine to run at 30ips for higher fidelity and make the perfect tape machine for mastering out of a 1960s valve machine. I didn't do all that on a whim.

I'm not saying the UAD isn't good, I think the UAD ampex is pretty good, as is the tone boosters r2r, which is on par. Some of the nebula banks though are really really good.

But, they still aren't the real thing, not yet, sometimes close is good enough, I recording I could handle that, but for mastering I just couldn't accept it.
I'm ok with soft compressors not quite doing the same thing, but once I really found how tape can be pushed in a particular way for mastering, I just couldn't replicate it any other way.

Incidentally my tape machine finally has become financially irreparable as the modifications made sourcing parts risky, and my maintenance guy basically told me the cost of the next round of maintenance repairs would equal the cost of a new machine, so I am currently usi the next best thing, a plugin I had made for me using he nebula engine and voltera kernals taken from my unique machine.

This may however change when I try the slate digital virtual tape machine, as fabrice is an amazing coder and slate products are stunning, even if Steve slate is a total ass.

[rktic]

I'm usually sceptic about counter opinions - especially when it's about hard vs software. So thanks for sharing your insights and shedding some light on the actual issues! I never used reel for anything. Obviously recorded tracks on tape during the early 90s but i have no idea how they related to actual reel devices.

I'd love to hear your opinion about the Slate plugin if you've got hold of it!

So - Nebula & Voltera kernels are the way to go? Quite funny, i always made my way around Nebula cause i was never keen on dealing with impulses due to their static nature.

[Lost to the Void]

I'm usually sceptic about counter opinions - especially when it's about hard vs software. So thanks for sharing your insights and shedding some light on the actual issues! I never used reel for anything. Obviously recorded tracks on tape during the early 90s but i have no idea how they related to actual reel devices.

I'd love to hear your opinion about the Slate plugin if you've got hold of it!

So - Nebula & Voltera kernels are the way to go? Quite funny, i always made my way around Nebula cause i was never keen on dealing with impulses due to their static nature.

Voltera kernals are not the same as impulse responses.
One is static the other is not.