Sampled kicks or synthetized Kicks . wich one is better?

[Aline N]

just wondering . lot of Big Producers say theyuse sampled Kicks and Layer them to get this great kicks. whats the advantages of making ur own Kick with a synth ? and how do you usually go processing your synth kick? should i just use Sample kicks?

[chrisso]

There is no 'better' essentially. Whatever floats your boat.
I do it all, and change my approach everytime I start a track. I mostly use sampled kicks, but I do layer, and I do synthesize kicks, hats, claps and snare all the time.
I try not to process kicks too much. The available samples are usually ready to go. I will layer something to make the sound my own.

[Lost to the Void]

Loaded question.

Use the sound that works at the right place and time.

Generated, hardware or software, kicks are easier to tune, as the sample isn`t repitched when you retune the kick, and of course you have more control over each part of the kick, but sampled kicks can have a nice texture to them, and pitching them down can do nice things.

I tend to layer less and less now as I am pretty good at getting exactly what I want out of one sampled or synthetic kick and a bit of EQ and compression/saturation or whatever.

But yeah, as long as you watch out for phase issue in the low end, just do something until it sounds good, whatever that may be, and then EQ and Dynamically sculpt out any problems there might be after.

[Aline N]

+1 ,. thanks for the reply Guys . great info here. so i see that most seasoned Producer don't worry to much about layering Kicks instead they look for a perfect sample to mangle and Sculpt. definitely would be awesome if someone does a tutorial about it in this Forum .

[ozias_leduc]

yeah whatever floats your boat. but regardless, i think it's good to ultimately have the kick(s) in a sampler so you can finely tune / proper adsr control / pitch envelope etc

i usually synthesise a kick with microtonic or fm8 or whatever, eq+overdrive/comp etc until it sounds nice, then whack it in a sampler drum rack. then i can work it more, and have multiple copies of it to work on. sometimes having more than one kick to work with is nice for a gallopy groove etc. sometimes layered, usually not.

just get in there and get your hands dirty!

[Lost to the Void]

have the kick(s) in a sampler so you can finely tune / proper adsr control / pitch envelope etc
!

This makes no sense. All control within a sampler in terms of ASDR isn`t "real" and effectively you are distorting the original signal each time, whereas when you control the ADSR in the original synth/generated kick, you have total control over the original waveform.
I mean, no way is better, but to suggest you can only properly control the adsr in the sample of the original is weird.

[disparate]

I don't see how an envelope on a sample is less "real" than one for a synth., that doesn't make sense to me. They're both just triggered volume controls affecting the level of whatever sound is going through them...

[ozias_leduc]

have the kick(s) in a sampler so you can finely tune / proper adsr control / pitch envelope etc
!

This makes no sense. All control within a sampler in terms of ASDR isn`t "real" and effectively you are distorting the original signal each time, whereas when you control the ADSR in the original synth/generated kick, you have total control over the original waveform.
I mean, no way is better, but to suggest you can only properly control the adsr in the sample of the original is weird.

but if you have processing on your synth(especially overdrive, dynamics), changing the ADSR on the synth is not necessarily going achieve the desired result. also - well for sampler in ableton anyway - you have a much better envelope generator than many synths (like being able to adjust the curve)

and really i just find it much tighter. i used to make kicks in fm8 (great envelope generator) but they would sound different every time they were triggered (even with oscillator sync on). sometimes in other synths it was damn near impossible to get the kick to totally decay before the next one hit etc

i guess a lot of my experience is from writing hardcore where my kick channels would have a lot of processing to sound ugly.

[Lost to the Void]

I don't see how an envelope on a sample is less "real" than one for a synth., that doesn't make sense to me. They're both just triggered volume controls affecting the level of whatever sound is going through them...

Well, try it yourself, use a synth kick, adjust the envelope, say the decay or sustain.
Then sample the kick, with the decay and sustain open, and try to reproduce the envelope in a sampler.

One effects the behaviour of the oscillator itself, the other applies a level based ADSR curve to the sample, you won`t get the same effect exactly.

Its like the difference between the Filter/Osc ADSR and the Amp ADSR on a synth.

[Lost to the Void]

but if you have processing on your synth(especially overdrive, dynamics), changing the ADSR on the synth is not necessarily going achieve the desired result. also - well for sampler in ableton anyway - you have a much better envelope generator than many synths (like being able to adjust the curve)

and really i just find it much tighter. i used to make kicks in fm8 (great envelope generator) but they would sound different every time they were triggered (even with oscillator sync on). sometimes in other synths it was damn near impossible to get the kick to totally decay before the next one hit etc

i guess a lot of my experience is from writing hardcore where my kick channels would have a lot of processing to sound ugly.

Ok I see where you are coming from now, you aren`t necessarily getting more control, but you are controlling things in a different situation.
Although I do use a lot of processing sometimes on kicks and have never ,when using generated kicks, had any trouble relying on the synth envelopes.
Occasionally I might use a transient designer to tighten things up post effects, but very very rarely.

[chrisso]

When I create my own drums from scratch I always sample them, or isolate them in audio. Most dance music these days uses a single sound, repeated.
I do sample multiple versions sometimes, so my drums can move sonically. I find a bass drum that changes timbre distracting (personally), but claps and snares benefit from variation, and hi-hats the most.

[msl]

Personally I always go for sampled, sometimes analog, I've always got the best results with samples though or the two layered.

[Aline N]

I was Watching a video of Sebastian Leger where he use a synthetized kick and usually eq hard around 2 K and above. and then layer that with a sampled kicks where he does the same. so far its working for me .

[Lost to the Void]

I was Watching a video of Sebastian Leger where he use a synthetized kick and usually eq hard around 2 K and above. and then layer that with a sampled kicks where he does the same. so far its working for me .

EQ is content dependant, there is no real replicable EQ method for kicks, what you apply relies entirely on the sound of the particular kick you are using and also, the particular end result you require.
Rather than copying producers, look at what they do and then find out why. Understanding rather than copying the technique will serve you far better in the long run.

Now why would you hard cut at 2K on a kick, well I suspect so you get a duller sounding kick, more subdued. Which is fine for some applications, but useless if the kick isn`t cutting through the mix as it is lacking the snap of high end transients.

What I am getting at here, is that there is no standard way of doing things, there are techniques you can apply that will be common to a lot of tasks, but there is no generic process for any one sound as such.

[elk]

I used to always use sampled drum sounds. but after my HD crashed recently I've begun synthesizing all my own drum sounds. whatever drum sounds I'm happy with I just bounce down to audio. so now I'm building up a small library of sounds that I know I like, as opposed to previously having gigs of drum samples that were mostly shit.

[Mattias]

I use both but mostly kicks from classical machines processed by the Fridell-chain. Synthesized kicks tends to work pretty bad on their own in the kind of music I do. They're ok for foundations to build upon however.

[wormcode]

I use both but mostly kicks from classical machines processed by the Fridell-chain. Synthesized kicks tends to work pretty bad on their own in the kind of music I do. They're ok for foundations to build upon however.

Yeah I just never liked kicks from synths for some reason, I could never leave it in there. I find they are good for fx or layers, but from the software I've tried I didn't like the way it sounded. I mean Nepheton/Drumazon, and Kicklab which were the last I tried. I've occasionally used drums from hardware synths like Virus & MBase, but just as effects, though the MBase makes better kicks... I dunno I always felt there was something missing. I probably just love the 707s/808s/909s sound too much so nothing else sounds right to me, but of course that doesn't mean the others suck, just different.

[Esh]

I like kicks

........do i need to expand on this?

[failed_utopia]

I have a few racks I've built in ableton where I have a synthesized kick and another layer as a sampler, I use the synth layer as extra sub punch if needed.

I also love my kick samples though, you can't have enough kicks really.

[Quantic Spectroscopy]

I tend to use both too, but i find myself using much more sampled ones processed by me. As mattias said, and the kind of music I do also get's a bit weird with synthesized kicks. But there isn't a rule... you just need to adapt depending on what you are doing! Try using both ways and see what you like more!