Experimentation, new ideas, avoiding tropes.

[Críoch]

Yeah, i like using it on the volume ( as well as pitch or filter / res) .. can be smoother & you can still use the filter.

Recently been enjoying lfo on the filter, or whatever & using an envelope on the rate of the lfo. Makes it go fast to slow etc

[Lost to the Void]

yeah, exactly my sentiments...

some nice pinging:
youtu.be/qJRXxkswXdg

Half the problem with stuff like this is that the process is more interesting than the end result.

Finding that balance is key.

[borg]

Finding that balance is key.

isn't everything about finding the balance? that game music dude with his boutique distortion boxes/compressors everyone was in awe for, his sound will also fall apart if not properly tuned. even mixing a simple track will do wonders if balanced correctly...
but I do get your point. yet another point for discussion: the journey or what comes out of the speakers?

[over9000]

thx for that video, andy, really interesting
will try this out with ableton, as i dont have any DDR filters right here



what i found when searching for pinging in ableton was this schlager ableton tutorials though

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTVx5u ... YUd_5lDHqA

its german only, but its hilarious. Almost painfull to watch, the florian silbereisen of ableton tutorials
everything exists at the same time
cant get over it

[Críoch]

I initially enjoyed looking at yerman hainbach.

He's a nice guy, but once you realise that his music / end result of his long-winded & gear centric approach is terrible.. you cannot put the fart back in the bottle.

Genuinely, nothing against him personally.. just can see a strange culture of gear fetishism going on & the music does justify my boat getting floated. Respect to the efforts he obviously puts in.

Can't watch him now. He's the Nigella Lawson of the 'cactus, coffee & a book you've never read' youtube IG brigade in my eyes.

[kronk]

^ *in tears

[kronk]

^ *in tears

youtu.be/iaCcUsGJo_U

[buffered]

Im into sequencing filterbank bands as though they were synths. Have a bark filter and rhythmically sequence this with a gate sequencer. Modulating the spectral tilt in sync. Also sequencing the sound via masking with spectral tools such as specops. The usuals like delays on kick drum and open lead into chain of fuzz pedals but i feel like these techniques have been caned by semantica, hypnus etc guys for a while now. Super simple audio rate sequencing with the phasor object in max detecting peaks and zeros to spit out bangs can also give nice results for weird sequences. Then shoot the trigger to a synth and resample.
I dunno, i reckon the new stuff is found within the sound. Lots of new shaping and spectral based cleaning tools out there that are ripe to be exploited. Most are now realtime and modulatable so you can sequence the actual makeup of a sound.

This sounds really interesting and new to me
Could you elaborate a bit more, eg how do you extract a trigger (midi i suppose?) Out of a source signal?
Sorry for the noobish way of asking, but it sounds really interesting and i cant try it out atm

Hey yeah it's pretty simple. So in max/msp you have a phasor~ object (sawtooth) as your master tempo running at 1 cycle per bar. connect this to a rate~ object which allows that phasor~ to be subdivided equally however many times you choose. So a value of 4 will divide that single cycle initial phasor~ into 4 cycles per bar. connect an edge~ object to the rate output and this will send a trigger every time that phasor~ cycle starts ascending.
this is the main idea. You can then FM the rate~ object with other waveforms and you will start getting modulated cyclic waveforms that hit 0 at irregular intervals. You can then take a trigger from every time the value ascends from 0. Connect this trig to a midiout~
Build up a network from these very simple elements and the cycles and triggers get complex pretty quick. As you have a single phasor~ as your main driver with everything dividing off that, it should all be in time.
You can then set up another sequencer to flip/flop the outputs of the edge~ object where instead of sending a bang(trigger) on the ascending, you can send on the descending. Phase offset some of your rate objects in the network and the triggers start shifting around. Modulate subtly and you get almost a humanized or drunk trigger timing.
If you are using modular alot of function generators have an end of cycle output. I'd imagine you can try a similar techniques using the LFO EOC or start of cycle and clock dividers.
It is kind of like extracting triggers via envelope following from an lfo network.
I hope that helps.

[Críoch]

^ *in tears

youtu.be/iaCcUsGJo_U

Haha.. yeah, the sheep sounds got me when I seen it first. Man. So many people fighting for a fraction of personal space & not comfortably getting it.. so end up looking really fake & awkward.

[borg]

He's a nice guy, but once you realise that his music / end result of his long-winded & gear centric approach is terrible.. you cannot put the fart back in the bottle.

Honestly, it's the first time I came across this guy, and sure he seems nice enough, but hadn't heard his actual released music. I just had to check, and it's not too shabby, quite diverse...
Now I remember... He was running around with a cosmic wave receiver thingie by Soma a while ago.

[Críoch]

Ah.. I'm not hating on the guy. Pinging is cool.. and that is grade A info that he shares in the vid. Respect to him.

I've just watched quite a few vids where it's been fascinating up until the music, or jam kicks in. That's all.

[borg]

I have that with LookMumNoComputer, the guy is talented, entertaining and knows his stuff, but the music doesn't grab me.

Anyway, back on topic, I'm taking my first steps in M4L and see the endless possibilities, but it's quite intimidating watching even the simplest tutorials. I guess it's something to get into. Have some ideas sound wise, and some simple workflow things.

[Kromasome]

Somewhat related to this thread;

I just put on an Inigo Kennedy mix to listen to at work and there was a section that sounded like deliberately out of time syncopation which I thought sounded ok as a bit of a sound design/arrangement type thing and then after a while I thought 'geez this is going on for quite a while'. Then I realised I had the same mix playing on both youtube and soundcloud (on separate tabs) but at slightly different points of the mix...

Getting old sux sometimes...

[Críoch]

Aye, done that a few times with different tabs open at the same time. It actually sounds pretty cool depending on what it is. You could probably get strange stuff having a few different 'layers' happening like that. Something tonal, some field recording type vid etc..

Theres also a speed control in YT that goes quite low. Even multiple tabs of the same sound the same sound the same sound might be interesting

[over9000]

Im into sequencing filterbank bands as though they were synths. Have a bark filter and rhythmically sequence this with a gate sequencer. Modulating...

This sounds really interesting and new to me....

Hey yeah it's pretty simple. So in max/msp you have a phasor~ object (sawtooth) as your master tempo running at 1 cycle per bar. connect this to a rate~ object which allows that phasor~ to be subdivided equally however many times you choose. So a value of 4 will divide that single cycle initial phasor~ into 4 cycles per bar. connect an edge~ object to the rate output and this will send a trigger every time that phasor~ cycle starts ascending.
this is the main idea. You can then FM the rate~ object with other waveforms and you will start getting modulated cyclic waveforms that hit 0 at irregular intervals. You can then take a trigger from every time the value ascends from 0. Connect this trig to a midiout~
Build up a network from these very simple elements and the cycles and triggers get complex pretty quick. As you have a single phasor~ as your main driver with everything dividing off that, it should all be in time.
You can then set up another sequencer to flip/flop the outputs of the edge~ object where instead of sending a bang(trigger) on the ascending, you can send on the descending. Phase offset some of your rate objects in the network and the triggers start shifting around. Modulate subtly and you get almost a humanized or drunk trigger timing.
If you are using modular alot of function generators have an end of cycle output. I'd imagine you can try a similar techniques using the LFO EOC or start of cycle and clock dividers.
It is kind of like extracting triggers via envelope following from an lfo network.
I hope that helps.

thanks alot for the explanation mate!
so you basically program this in the max console witht he phasor object? or is there a max device with GUI that can does this?
iam still not sure if i can wrap my head around it completely in theory, but i will try it out tonight to see.
feels exiting

[buffered]

so you basically program this in the max console witht he phasor object? or is there a max device with GUI that can does this?

Yeah just in max/msp standalone from scratch. I don't use ableton.

[borg]

so you basically program this in the max console with he phasor object? or is there a max device with GUI that can does this?

Yeah just in max/msp standalone from scratch. I don't use ableton.

too early for me... I can see something's happening with a scope object after the phasor and rate objects, but nothing from edge, or trigger.
need to wrap my head around attributes first, I think.

[Críoch]

Experimentation?

If you have L10. .and just got Live 11.. Make an effect rack in L10 with all the mod plugs, Phaser, Chorus & Flanger. L11 will see it & you can still use them. The old chorus plugin is especially cool with its x20 audio rate button. Can make even a sine wave sound strange or aggressive.

The new versions in L11 are lovely.. but they're all grown up now.

[Amøbe]

I have a really hard time not slapping a pad on top of my tracks (i need therapy for this!).

However, one thing that has actually helped the pads become more interesting is exploring the harmonies of counterpoint (now if you look that up, it will all sound like Bach - and that can be fine, but it is not very techno). The thing I take away from this is that even in the medieval ages, the scale was not to be seen as something that couldn't be bend. So for instance if you use a Major scale, then you got a major chords on the 1st, 4th, and 5th, (and sort of on the 7th, which are understood as the 5th, but that has nothing to do with where I'm getting at), and then you have the relative minor chords on the 6th, 2nd, and 3rd step.

A way to make your harmonic movements (and since these are pads for techno, please don't move around faster than 8 bars) is to ignore the supposed chord that should belong to the step you are on. If you move in scale, but play a major chord, where there was supposed to be a minor (or vice versa), then you will get a harmonic language that doesn't sound too 'correct', but also doesn't sound like a german serialist banging his dick on an organ. Another thing is to omit the third in your harmonies for extended period of time, which gives an uneasy harmonic mood, which doesn't sound like it has locked too much into place - this is nice. Instead of thirds, try using seconds or fourths, if you want to augment your harmonies... if you ever try to look up how to play Boards of Canada, you will figure out that I have completely ripped off their harmonic language.

...What to take away from this. I think a lot of producers, who are a bit afraid of harmony often relies heavily on a scale plugin, and knows that triads are "correct", and therefore are afraid to do something else. Don't be afraid to do something else.

I personally don't like techno that are too harmonic at the expense of bass and groove... I also really like, when the groove itself has a cool texture rather than listening to something ambient, with a 4-to-the-floor dick jumping below the textures.

[Críoch]

Just regarding audio rate stuff.

The autopan, on mono , non stereo setting, whatever that's called.. can do audio rate & you can make the % wet & put a few in a chain, going at different rates.