Studio Build dilemma

[timc3]

So, I got to the point where I can start working on building my studio. The room is about 6.8meters long by 3 meters, with a ceiling that is just over 2.4meters. My idea is that 2/3 of it will be studio, but the back of it I will put an office desk or perhaps two, so that I can work from home (which will probably be the majority of the rooms use considering I work much more than I do music.

I started looking into acoustic treatment as I am sure that it's going to need it, then the other day I started talking to an acoustician who I could hire to create plans and would provide some of the materials for the build to get the room up to what he thinks is acceptable level (which is probably way better than I hope I could get to by myself).

The dilemma is, do I want to basically take over the whole room with acoustic treatment for what in reality is the secondary function for the room, or would I be happy enough building some broadband absorbers and probably buying products that are hard to DIY?

I have never gone down the route of trying to treat a room myself so looking for advice on whether it's possible to get it good enough with self built and off the shelf products, or has anyone that has tried this never been happy with the result?

[Lost to the Void]

You can get things to a very good level with off the shelf products.
It all really is a case of how much do you want to invest, and how far down this road you want to go.

How accurate do you need your final room to be?
I think often people get caught up on this stuff a little too much (yes yes I know, I have gone crazy with this stuff, but I run a mastering business, so it`s a necessity rather than choice, for the mastering room).

For example, my production room is barely treated, I just haven`t gotten around to it, I have sonarworks, some minimal treatment, (admittedly an exceedingly good 4way monitoring system in there) and minimal diffusion (built a large bookshelf at the back of the room), and I`m doing good. Not that I ever rate myself or big myself up for my skills, but I`ve worked and am working with some respected labels and they all think my stuff sounds great, mix-wise, (it`s usually me who tells them I`m not good enough and then spends months tweaking my mixes and generally testing the patience of the labels).
But my mixes are translating well to my mastering room, and when I get feedback from other mastering engineers if they are mastering my stuff, it`s generally pretty good, my issues tend to be very broad biases, which are super easy to correct in mastering....
There is a lot to be said for ear training, learning your speakers (REALLY learning them) and consistent monitoring levels.

So, to cut my waffling shite short, weigh up what you really (REALLY) need, with what you are already achieving, against budget.

[2latuile]

I can only second Steve's advices here. Your room is rather comfortable for a personal home studio (at least for electronica and mixing) but it's still too small to reach "professional" level acoustic whatever budget and amount of treatment you throw at it (and no professional studio has a "perfect" acoustic anyway), so you shouldn't expect too much even with the help of an acoustician. The point is that in all cases (I mean even with the help of an acoustician and a generous budget) you will still have to learn your monitors and your room's acoustic, switch to a good reference headphone to double-check your mixes, and keep on checking your work against reference tracks - "small rooms" acoustics issues (specially in the low end) are such that you quickly reach the point where the only way to improve anything is to first move to a much larger room

I spent several weeks searching the topic, had a few talks about it with my step bro (who works a professional acoustician), and the general consensus is that the best bang for the bucks here is probably a combination of careful monitoring choice and placement and a few (DIY) broadband absorbers (possibly with some added high diffusion at some point to avoid deadening the room too much). NB : what follows is mostly a summary of what I've learned in the process and through a bit of hands-on experience - I don't claim any expertise on the topic and some of the points below may be debatable

First you want to have the back wall as far away (from your monitors / listening position) as possible, which means having your monitors firing along the longest room axis. If you have sealed or front-ported monitors, you want them very close to the front wall (with some absorbtion behind) to deal with boundary interferences (if you have back-ported monitors then no luck...). You of course want them at equal distances from the side walls - you want as much symetry as possible here for proper stereo imaging -, and this distance should differ from both the monitor to ceiling and monitor to floor distances (to avoid piling on boundary interferences at the same frequency). Your listening position should be equidistant from both speaker (seems obvious xD) and (more or less) the same as the distance between the speakers - mostly forming an equilateral triangle. wrt/ speakers height, assuming 2-ways speakers, you want your hears at the same height as the midpoint between the twitter and woofer centers. Note that those are all starting points, not golden rules.

Then you may want to download and install Room Eq Wizard and learn to do some measures (and, more importantly, how to read them !) to make sure you know where the main problems are (hint: first look for huge resonances in the low / low mid - looking at the time domain waterfall graph, not the frequency response one). This can help you find out whether your monitors / listening positions are sane (in my low ceiling room, moving the speakers and listening position two inches up made a significant improvement) and whether your acoustic treatments actually improve anything.

Basically you'll most certainly need a couple panels on the front wall behind your monitors (cf above), a couple others on the sides (and if possible one on the ceiling) between your monitors and your monitoring position to prevent the most annoying first reflections (flutter echos etc) and improve stereo imaging, and then either superchunks or a few more panels to straddle along the corners. A bit of diffusion and/or absorbsion on the back wall (the one behind you) will probably be welcome too, but this can be provided (at least partly) by furnitures. Just beware that too much / ill-placed broadband absorbers can deaden your room too much - something that (properly done) measurements with REW should reveal. For better results in the low end, try to keep some gap between panels and the wall (same depth as your panels, ie a 10cm gap for a 10cm deep panel).

Note that DIY rockwool (or fiberglass) panels are easy to build, rather cheap, and more effective than commercial acoustic foam thingies. If you really have a serious issue in the low end (and a serious budget too), proper commercial bass traps may help (but avoid the - mostly useless - foam ones).

[Lost to the Void]

I don`t think he needed a beginners guide to room correction dude, I don`t think anyone isn`t aware of the basics.

[2latuile]

I don`t think he needed a beginners guide to room correction dude, I don`t think anyone isn`t aware of the basics.

I don't know what the OP knows or doesn't, but I know for sure than most of the musicians / producers / home studio owner I meet are surprisingly unaware of even the most basic stuff when it comes to acoustic, so what you consider as basic - beginner level might as well be new to some peoples lurking around here. Also, I didn't post this answer for the sole benefit of the OP - this is a public part of the forum, and those informations, as basic as they are, can benefit someone else (possibly not yet a member).

[timc3]

You can get things to a very good level with off the shelf products.
It all really is a case of how much do you want to invest, and how far down this road you want to go.

Yeah, that's the thing that it's causing me to evaluate, as I have always been more into this for the fun and enjoyment as it makes me happy and never really with the intent of releasing.

How accurate do you need your final room to be?
I think often people get caught up on this stuff a little too much (yes yes I know, I have gone crazy with this stuff, but I run a mastering business, so it`s a necessity rather than choice, for the mastering room).

How accurate? I would like to be able to hear changes I am making properly. For example for as long as I can remember I have been building tracks in environments that are somewhere between not very good and truly rubbish and I have invested in some decent plugins but I have never felt that I can properly take advantage of them or resolve some or any of the fine changes I could make.. And so probably making the wrong choices but I spend a lot of time A-Bing with commercial releases. I have been lucky enough to do some commercial audio work in proper facilities where I can hear some of those differences, such as in mastering studios working alongside professionals.

For example, my production room is barely treated, I just haven`t gotten around to it, I have sonarworks, some minimal treatment, (admittedly an exceedingly good 4way monitoring system in there) and minimal diffusion (built a large bookshelf at the back of the room), and I`m doing good. Not that I ever rate myself or big myself up for my skills, but I`ve worked and am working with some respected labels and they all think my stuff sounds great, mix-wise, (it`s usually me who tells them I`m not good enough and then spends months tweaking my mixes and generally testing the patience of the labels).
But my mixes are translating well to my mastering room, and when I get feedback from other mastering engineers if they are mastering my stuff, it`s generally pretty good, my issues tend to be very broad biases, which are super easy to correct in mastering....
There is a lot to be said for ear training, learning your speakers (REALLY learning them) and consistent monitoring levels.

I think that is testament to your skill and knowledge, helped a little with being able to reference in your mastering environment if you so wish.

Probably need to both do more ear training and more listening. I do try and listen to most music on the monitors I use for producing to get an idea of what is going on and so I understand them better (so if I find something interesting I will re-listen to them on my monitors). But these little Eve Audio SC205s that I am using at the moment (due to limitations in listening position in my old place) will probably be upgraded to something that I can put into the correct place. Or I guess I could compliment them with a sub or two.

So, to cut my waffling shite short, weigh up what you really (REALLY) need, with what you are already achieving, against budget.

Yeah, I have a bit of a budget, was thinking up to about 5000Euros for acoustic treatment and build (and I can & will build things myself) and then in addition to that I have a budget for new monitors, furniture, cables etc.. Not a huge amount compared to others but still ok. But I think my reality is it must also be a place that I am happy to spend hours in designing and writing software and doing Zoom calls, then move to the other side of the room and start making some music.

Thanks for the help!

[timc3]

I can only second Steve's advices here. Your room is rather comfortable for a personal home studio (at least for electronica and mixing) but it's still too small to reach "professional" level acoustic whatever budget and amount of treatment you throw at it (and no professional studio has a "perfect" acoustic anyway), so you shouldn't expect too much even with the help of an acoustician. The point is that in all cases (I mean even with the help of an acoustician and a generous budget) you will still have to learn your monitors and your room's acoustic, switch to a good reference headphone to double-check your mixes, and keep on checking your work against reference tracks - "small rooms" acoustics issues (specially in the low end) are such that you quickly reach the point where the only way to improve anything is to first move to a much larger room

I spent several weeks searching the topic, had a few talks about it with my step bro (who works a professional acoustician), and the general consensus is that the best bang for the bucks here is probably a combination of careful monitoring choice and placement and a few (DIY) broadband absorbers (possibly with some added high diffusion at some point to avoid deadening the room too much). NB : what follows is mostly a summary of what I've learned in the process and through a bit of hands-on experience - I don't claim any expertise on the topic and some of the points below may be debatable

Yeah, I realise that if I was building it for a commercial reasons it might not be big enough, but still I should be able to achieve something reasonable as it isn't a tiny square box. I don't think that checking my work against reference tracks will ever go away, I just learn too much while doing that!

My thought initially was to to follow the best advice that I have reading about over the last year (which you have done a good job of summing up) and then building everything myself, measuring with REW, and if I find any real problems start buying, or commissioning something that would help solve it.

Thanks for the reply.

[timc3]

I don`t think he needed a beginners guide to room correction dude, I don`t think anyone isn`t aware of the basics.

I don't know what the OP knows or doesn't, but I know for sure than most of the musicians / producers / home studio owner I meet are surprisingly unaware of even the most basic stuff when it comes to acoustic, so what you consider as basic - beginner level might as well be new to some peoples lurking around here. Also, I didn't post this answer for the sole benefit of the OP - this is a public part of the forum, and those informations, as basic as they are, can benefit someone else (possibly not yet a member).

No worries, I think it's really helpful to both confirmation what I have been learning but also as a future reference to someone else.

[Lost to the Void]

Yeah, I have a bit of a budget, was thinking up to about 5000Euros for acoustic treatment and build (and I can & will build things myself) and then in addition to that I have a budget for new monitors, furniture, cables etc.. Not a huge amount compared to others but still ok. But I think my reality is it must also be a place that I am happy to spend hours in designing and writing software and doing Zoom calls, then move to the other side of the room and start making some music.

Thanks for the help!

5000 euros will definitely give you a marked improvement to your listening environment.

Primarily I would start with better monitors. The most important thing in the room is the thing that produces the sound.
There are a lot of options these days, you can get HOFA cylinder bass traps at a very good price these days, 4 or 8 of those in a room will dramatically reduce your standing waves for 7-800 quid (if you just use 4). EQ acoustics do limp membrane absorbers for a very affordable price, they are a uk company, and really good guys to deal with.
Some traps, a little diffusion, split the 5000 50/50 between treatment and monitors and you could have a nice listening environment more than good enough to help you get to the point where your premasters only require a light touch in mastering.

[timc3]

5000 euros will definitely give you a marked improvement to your listening environment.

Primarily I would start with better monitors. The most important thing in the room is the thing that produces the sound.
There are a lot of options these days, you can get HOFA cylinder bass traps at a very good price these days, 4 or 8 of those in a room will dramatically reduce your standing waves for 7-800 quid (if you just use 4). EQ acoustics do limp membrane absorbers for a very affordable price, they are a uk company, and really good guys to deal with.
Some traps, a little diffusion, split the 5000 50/50 between treatment and monitors and you could have a nice listening environment more than good enough to help you get to the point where your premasters only require a light touch in mastering.

Thanks for the advice, the monitors I was thinking of buying for about that, but I had the 5000 on top just for build if I needed to. Obviously would be nice not to spend more than I need. Thanks for pointing me to EQ Acoustics, think I heard you mention them before - HOFA I have heard of and seen their products in various places.

What I am thinking of doing is to get the room cleared (I still have tools and some wood in their) and do some basic measurements, then hopefully that will give me a basic idea of the problems I need to tackle.

[Root]

A lot is said already, I only can add that a room that serves different purposes can be a chance for good acoustics, as you can use furniture instead of professional treatment. If you got some shelves and a couch and stuff to add, you might get some good diffusion and basstrapping. So you could think of having your room more like 2/3 homeoffice and 1/3 studio, while your office is part of your treatment concept (so maybe it's 1/1 studio then ). Add sonarworks and you might achieve proper results already. Just my 2 cents to widen your possibilities. I'm not professional in any way, so maybe this is just my amateurish idea.. at least this worked in my old room pretty good for me.

[speen]

I just moved into a 3.6 x 2.6m room which also has the washing machine and drier opposite my desk with gear.

I am about to order a mic and use the REW software to see if I can do some measurements and check what's possible. I'm curious to see what comes out and what I can do to make it better.

Hopefully that wall with washing machine and other stuff will act as useful acoustic furniture.. lets wait and see.

[Lost to the Void]

Washing machine and dryer will act like resonators.
Not good, loose flappy sheets of metal basically.
Probably wanna get some broadband standing panels (1 large placed on it's longest length would cover a washer and dryer in width and end up about the same height too) in front of the to stop some sound pressure.

[timc3]

I just moved into a 3.6 x 2.6m room which also has the washing machine and drier opposite my desk with gear.

I am about to order a mic and use the REW software to see if I can do some measurements and check what's possible. I'm curious to see what comes out and what I can do to make it better.

Hopefully that wall with washing machine and other stuff will act as useful acoustic furniture.. lets wait and see.

Yeah, that is not ideal, but I think it's worse when they are running!

I agree with the idea of having a standing panel that you move in-front of them.

[michi]

Hi, all...

I can recommend this company:
https://www.kissyourears.com/

My Room was already very good. But I wanted to have the last 10-15 / for my beloved Bullfrogs. And now it is nearly perfect. The Boss from http://martion.de/ was here and he checked the room again after the treatment.

Here is a pic of how it looks like...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UGNcY8 ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BjcFYv ... sp=sharing

I think self-made treatments can work well, but if you have the money and you want to have fun, invest it...

[timc3]

Always wanted to hear some Martion speakers..

I like the dedication to music gear in your space. I presume you spend more time making music then watching TV!

Thanks for the recommendation.

[michi]

Thanks The Bullfrogs are amazing. I am from Berlin and the Company too. So they set them up perfectly. They visit me after the acoustic was done, and they told me this could be one of the best sounding bedroom studios in Berlin We did measurements with his Tool (not Sonarworks), but he told it is not needed here.

BTW, sometimes I turn on the Playstation

[TheDarkInstall]

I don`t think he needed a beginners guide to room correction dude, I don`t think anyone isn`t aware of the basics.

He might not have, but I found it bloody useful!

[subvers^v]

@michi - very nice space! Is it me or do you have a crazy wide monitor there? ..

Edit: see them online now, ultrawide, never knew these existed! How do they work, in terms of programs using the full width resolution? ..

[TheDarkInstall]

Lads, the recommendations in this thread have been excellent;

Sonarworks has really helped, as has the wall bounce calculator I found via the Speaker Placement 101 link. Edging slowly towards a way better room for banging out angular, stark sledgehammers of techno.