Expert Sleepers _ USAMO / Fixing Shit Midi Timing / Jitter In Ableton

[Críoch]

HI guys, anyone using it?

https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/usamo.html

Seems like a good idea.

Midi data gets converted to fast, jitter free audio, which then gets reconstructed into jitter free midi clock, notes etc..


And it looks like great value.

I'm trying to get an idea regarding the limitations with it, regarding amount of simultaneous midi channels you can use ( think it's 16.. but not sure, online manual is slim).. or how it handles polyphony.

2021 Update: interesting thread on ERM MULTICLOCK & USAMO / midi thru & merge boxes

https://www.subsekt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6171

[over9000]

It seems very reasonable priced for what its supposed to do.
But i guess this doesent sync up to a daw?
Cause that would be what i need..
How was the device called again that root pointed out in the other track?
But if you just want to sync up gear this seems nice

[Críoch]

Hey.. I think ( would love to hear from someone who has it..), that it sends a constant tone, for want of a better description, from your DAW to external synths or drum machines with sequencers.

Theres no jitter cos the clock it gets out of the DAW is audio, which gets converted into midi info as it gets piped out of the USAMO box.

You can (afaik) send clock.. transport.. song position .. notes etc.. to external stuff.

You can daisy chain stuff after that as well from what I read, with good results.

As the audio comes back into your DAW.. you can adjust latency to line it all up. Jitter free.

I don't mind the timings or fixing up audio. It's the jitter that fucks me off.

I'm interested to find out how it performs in real life; whether you can run a busy 16th sequence from Ableton on one midi channel to an external synth.. while simultaneously sending chords / pad type on a second midi channel to a 2nd external synth.

[over9000]

Ok so that sounds good!

I dident have space for music the last year, but we will move soon and i have a big room for myself again
Would love to set up the neutron and the tanzmaus and ableton, but afaik it would be a big pain with just midi cables and the audio interface..

Would also love to hear some experiences of a person who owns one of these
Root talked in another thread about the erm multiclock (remembered the name finally), that seems to work really good but its also 500 bucks which seems a bit much for such an utility device

[Root]

I'm interested to find out how it performs in real life; whether you can run a busy 16th sequence from Ableton on one midi channel to an external synth.. while simultaneously sending chords / pad type on a second midi channel to a 2nd external synth.

For sure you can do this with Usamo. It's the same way ERM is using: Daw Tempo --> Audio click via plugin --> Send to audio out --> into Midibox (be it Usamo or Multiclock or...).

Usamo provides one midi out, so you'll have 16 channels to send midi notes on. While ERM Multiclock provides four midi out. It's just up to you and what you're looking for. My experience is, that some gear react different than other when it comes to syncing up to ext. midi clock. That's why I'm happy with multiclock, so I'm able to fine tune timing for all my 5 synths I'm sending clock to. For sure you can daisy chain (that's where 'midi thru' comes in). It might happen, that your daisy chained devices reacts a little (ms) different and you might wish more midi outs to get that fixed. As far as I know Wolf is using Usamo with way more than one synth behind it, and he's very happy with that.

[Críoch]

Hey Root, cheers man!

Found this, while googling haha. Often happens

viewtopic.php?t=6709

Yeah. Wolf got it. Must go back & read over the ERM thread again..

Got it: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9735

Right.. now we need Wolf to detail exactly how his setup is working with links to midi splitting / merging units, midi cables etc.. AND copy him

[WOLF!]

To late but it seems that my topic has allready been found.
To complement this topic. I still use the Usamo and it works fine.

I'm currently recabling my studio (and changing adat converters, patchbays, and a mixer) so I need to do the Usamo setup procedure again... .
I basically distribute the Usamo clock (I only use it for clocking) via a midi patchbay/splitter to all my gear that needs clock.
I sequence with a few hardware sequencers (RS7000, digitakt and Zaquencer) all clocked to that Usamo clock.
I work with the computer like it's a tape recorder... .

[Críoch]

That's cool Wolf.. appreciate that.

Recabling sucks

I'm nearly ready to buy I reckon.

Just wondering why & how you use the midi merge box & if it would be necessary for me too?

I have a Motu ultralite MK2 & would be hoping to run a drum machine ( Analog Rytm) and a 303 style synth, DSI MEK, using it's internal sequencer AND using live / push 2 to send chords to a JD800 or JV1080.

I have a Kenton midi thru box.. but so wondering how a merge unit would slot in?

Cheers man

[nomadjames]

I have one. It's fiddly, but it does what it says it does. It is difficult to get it functioning, but once you do it is good. Os is awesome to work with, always willing to help you get his products working.

[nomadjames]

As Wolf stated is pretty much exactly how I do it when I use the USAMO.

TBH I have stopped using it for the most part. I was just sending sync to my TR-8 and sending it out from there over USB. Was close enough.

[Críoch]

Cheers man.

And you were jitter free doing that using the TR8.. is that why you got the USAMO?

Aye .. OS seems to be very active & friendly online. I've seen that. Across multiple sites.

_

Btw. Have you tried sending clock to something & midi notes from Ableton to a synth/s?

[WOLF!]

That's cool Wolf.. appreciate that.

Recabling sucks

I'm nearly ready to buy I reckon.

Just wondering why & how you use the midi merge box & if it would be necessary for me too?

I have a Motu ultralite MK2 & would be hoping to run a drum machine ( Analog Rytm) and a 303 style synth, DSI MEK, using it's internal sequencer AND using live / push 2 to send chords to a JD800 or JV1080.

I have a Kenton midi thru box.. but so wondering how a merge unit would slot in?

Cheers man

Recabling is not my favorite job, but I'm always very happy when it's done.
It was necessary, because I've made a new studio rack (for my converters, patchbays and some fx units).

rack.JPG (20.59 KiB) Viewed 14776 times

It needed to be done before the winter because winter is 'peak' time for making music.
The audio cables are mostly done. I still need to recable the midi setup a bit.

I use a midi merge box to merge all the data that comes from my sequencers and send it to my synths.
I also add synth data to the merge box so that I can record that midi data on the sequencers.
Make sure the only one device outputs midi clock when it's merged because otherwise you get crazy speedcore tempo.

You also have a DSI Mono Evolver! It's a great synth. In the past I've owned the desktop version but that's nothing compared to the synth version.
This is a great example when it comes to the differences in interface between and the usability a good interface brings to an instrument.

In the past I've did some test with the Usamo and sending cc's or notes and all worked perfectly.

[Críoch]

Long post alert. Sorry

That's a great job that you've done there. I did something similar.. but went purely functional & raw. Not as pretty as that lol. My dad had some wooden panels that I used to build huts when I was a kid ( they were old at that point).. & I used them up. Some of my bits were probably 50 years old. So.. 'Antique' chipboard sides on the lower half of my unit to cradle my Mackie CR1604. Hardware store raw timber for the uprights, which have a few patchbays & units. Great for hanging wires off too.

My son's friend came in once & asked if I had a radio station in the room. No.. but I do have some RFI

Fair play on getting the aesthetic right. Looks like a proper piece of furniture

It's good to repatch tbh.. life is always changing.

Hear you on the autumn / winter thing. I see the year split into segments, punctuated by school holidays. Summer is deceptive time..

Cheers for the rundown on the midi merge. I don't think I need one right now. I was interested to know about it as I could pick one up when I was getting the USAMO. Is yours powered or unpowered btw.. & Would you recommend your one?

MEK is a beast. I find it doesn't do 'normal' very well. It comes to life if you go with the flow & fly off on a tangent. So many controls. So many mods. Such a waste to do a boring bassline with

One early success for me was realising that the Noise needed that extra Envelope routed to it to get it percussive, as it's not routed though the other envelopes. Love using the attacks to get stuff sucking & grooving. It's so modular really. Millions of ways to affect things.

My only gripe: I like the filters.. but I wish the HP didn't click on/off.

See you have the PE upgrade? Very necessary. My original encoders went bad. I had replacement ALPS indented boards for a while.. which stepped changes. They were ok, but the PE are superb in comparison. Super smooth.

Cheers for all the info about the USAMO W. Really appreciate it. I need to double check a few more things before I grab one. Found a full . PDF manual on the site which filled in some other gaps.

[WOLF!]

Thx for your compliments about my latest woodwork. I find DIY stuff is very rewarding and stimulating.

For midi mergers & splitters I suggest powered ones as I know people who had troubles with unpowered versions.
Kenton has decent kit but I use the old Edirol UM series. I have 2 550's and one 880's. These units can merge, split and patch (and do some midi filtering).
Brilliant pieces of kit and they don't make stuff like this any more . Attention, these units have no usb support for Windows10!
I'm still on windows7 in the studio and a don't feel I need to update; it's a very stable system that I only use for music purposes.
I only use the usb function to make sysex dumps for my synth patches. I should experiment with it to record some cc's so I can use them for automation but now I'm just recording the audio of my knob twiddling.

I have the potmeter edition of the Evolver. I wanted one for a very long time when I had the desktop version and this year a MEK with PE upgrade popped up in my area. I decided to go for it and I'm not regretting it; it's the best buy of the year. It's a special synth with all the mod possibilities and I constantly find out new things. You're right about the Curtis filter; it's not the best sounding filter but when you get to know it you will find sweet spots.

It's actually a very good idea to read the manual in advance. I always do that when I'm interested in some gear.
It saved me some cash reading manuals and noticing that some of the gear doesn't do the things I think they would do... .

One important thing I should mention about the Usamo is that when you use an offset to compensate latency the Usamo waits one bar before starting all your gear.

[Críoch]

Re the MEK.. I'm always super conscious of gainstaging when I'm making a sound, or trying' to remember at least. I think if the filters were more aggressive, it would just be harder to tame sometimes. Another variable to watch out for.

Might make a MEK thread if there isn't one already lol.. it's been a while.

Seen the USAMO offset thing online yesterday as it happens Wolf. A guy said it doesn't affect him if he avtivates the count-in with Abletons transport. Not sure if that works or I misread the meaning of what they were bitching about haha

[frico]

I have a USAMO –as others have said, it's a bit fiddly to set up but works really well and the timing tightness is noticeable in comparison to a USB midi interface. The trick is getting the level of the audio input right –if it's off, the USAMO can seem to be working but the midi notes get weirdly transposed. But once you get it right and then make a note of where the track fader level is in the DAW, it's pretty cool. I've used 8 channels at once going in to the EMU E6400 ultra for some tight drum patterns and it definitely made a difference.

[Críoch]

Hey frico.. That's cool that you have s 6400. Nearly bought one a year or so ago. Hope to pick one up some day.

Just ordered an USAMO this morn. Was cheaper to order from Schneidersladen with p&p than Thomann. Thomann had a few weeks wait to get stock also.

SL had them ready to the go, so with Brexit possibly approaching.. I decided to get the USAMO before UK products get hit with higher taxes. I dunno.. but at least they had some in stock. Who knows what'll happen in a month or 2.

Looking forward to get it now. Will definitely give it a good roadtest & decide if it's for me. Thanks for that advice. I've read a lot online about it. Seen plenty of teething problems.. but I'm syched.

[Skullrattler]

I had a good look at threads disussing this. I wouldn't use it for anything other than clock sync and there is the issue- I'd need to merge the MIDI clock from it with the rest of the MIDI data being sent out from a normal MIDI interface. There is just no way the USAMO can translate all MIDI messages into audio and then back to MIDI without losses....

Seems a bit hit & miss and some people haven't been able to get it to work.

On the Mac you can get good MIDI clock if you run your DAW at 64 samples buffer size or less... for DAWs that support OS X Core MIDI as it uses time stamping. The audio buffer setting determines the frequency at which MIDI data will be sent to the USB port and so the smaller the buffer the more frequent the updates, and hence the tighter the MIDI clock... This also needs a MIDI interface that supports time-stamping... such as ESI M4UXT USB 2 interface and some of the Edirol interfaces. The boxes, not the cheap cable things. There is a chip made by Ploytec that handles this and only these interfaces are known to have it.

[-GeO-]

Looking forward to get it now. Will definitely give it a good roadtest & decide if it's for me. Thanks for that advice. I've read a lot online about it. Seen plenty of teething problems.. but I'm syched.

Hey Críoch! I'm very curious to hear about your experience with the USAMO. I've been plagued by midi sync issues for a while now and I'm getting tired of banging my head against the desk . I even reached out on Reddit and the USAMO was one of the recommended solutions. You can read it here if you're bored and curious lol: https://www.reddit.com/r/modular/commen ... y_to_sync/

Here's what I'm specifically curious about. First off, I've noticed that my old MachineDrum, TR-8s and Eurorack all have different latency's when responding to MIDI. To make matters worse, I also noticed that Ableton's clock output is so shitty that when I hit play, my Eurorack's sequencer would often start at different times. Sometimes it would start in relatively close time and other times it would be up to a whole quarter note off. That quickly becomes super annoying!! I then tried using the TR-8s as the master clock. It was a slight improvement but I soon realized it was annoying to lose control over song position (Live resets to bar 1 each time the TR is started). Maybe there's a setting for that but ultimately, I would like to keep Live as my master and improve the clock out to my external gear. I also looked at the E-RM Multiclock and that looks like the ideal solution but I have a hard time spending $600 on a midi-only device. The attractive thing is that each port on the Multiclock appears to have it's own trim knob to nudge the timing on each output and compensate for individual device latency in a stable and reliable way. Set it and forget it is something I dream of! I'm wondering if just having a single stable clock out from the USAMO and feeding it into a midi splitter will get things lined up close enough. My eurorack sequencer (Stillson Hammer MKII) is a digital and seems to have the most latency in my current rig. I would just love to experience a consistently tight sync for a change . Let me know your thoughts and how things go with the USAMO. Cheers!

[Root]

...I've noticed that my old MachineDrum, TR-8s and Eurorack all have different latency's when responding to MIDI. To make matters worse, I also noticed that Ableton's clock output is so shitty that when I hit play, my Eurorack's sequencer would often start at different times. Sometimes it would start in relatively close time and other times it would be up to a whole quarter note off. That quickly becomes super annoying!!

That's the exact thing the Multliclock is made for, sorry for saying that . I had the exact same shitty problems and I also thought I'd never spend that much money for a single device you set up and forget. But... (sorry), since I've got that box ALL problems are gone. I did not only get a stable clock for all my devices to have them in perfectly sync and grooving. No, I also got some nice jamming options regarding shuffle, (re-)start/stop buttons and so.. And no, I'm not working for E-RM or know anyone of them, hehe!
Concerning your question: as far as I can see, you get one stable clock from USAMO that you can split to send to your devices. From my experience some gear has different latencys than other, so USAMO was no option for me. On the other hand, I haven't tried it with my setup and can't tell if it would work. Wolf?