I'm totally unable to design kick/sub with headphones

[Masari]

Some of you guys having trouble with kick and more generally low frequencies design using headphone ?

[Macca]

Yeah i find it really difficult also, i think its partly down to not knowing my headphones well enough and being so used to hearing music through the monitors instead.

What issues are you having?

[Fourty Two]

One day, I'm going to get a subwoofer for that purpose.
But until that day, I have to rely on switching between headphones, monitors, testing on different speakers and A/Bing with other people's tracks.

[Críoch]

Was kinda talking about this with mslwte last night. I got some new k702 headphones. They're a real truth teller it would appear.

A/b'ing with other tracks & mine.. I can hear how my personal preference for mega bass & shitty monitoring environment is slightly skewed. I need to spend a bit of time to understand my headphones & try to translate bass goals better with my monitoring.

One step forward, 2 steps back. It's never ending.

[Divjak]

I have etys ER4 for a year and a half now, and I am just getting a bit more confident in understanding how they sound and how they translate. I recommend extensive listening sessions of well produced music of all genres AND ESPECIALLY A LOT OF EQ practice. Its not a walk in the park.

[PERIAL]

Subpac is really helpful for this.

[Monreal]

Get this:

https://www.subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10412

I'm much more in control with my bass frequencies, also helps a lot with the decreasing the colourness of the high fqs.

[Trom]

It's about a year since I started using the k702s and while theres some progress I very much struggle to get proper punchy kicks and defined bass. I'm really trying to refine my compression and EQing but it is frustrating as even after putting a lot of work into the lowend of a track its no guarantee it'll sound better. Though I've never really mixed on monitors so not sure how much would be down to listening environment compared to me just generally lacking the skills.

I really like the k702s in general although the fact that they're open-back means I cant use them at work which is where I listen to most music. I'll take the advice and do some proper listening sessions at home, properly knowing the headphones is prob a big part of the issue.

Get this:

https://www.subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10412

Which cans are you using it with? I used Sonarworks with my prev cans that were very bass heavy, but I skipped when I got the k702s as they're supposedly very flat and I'm afraid adding Sonarworks in the mix will cause more issues than it solves...

[Monreal]

I use 701, which is basically the same other than the detachable cable on 702.

[P0607r0n]

Yeah 1 step forward 2 steps Back seems to be Norm for me since some time. I was playing couple of my Tunes Out on the rig during a dj set last weekend, and bassy were the ones i didnt expect to have a nice defined bass, when some others apeard to have not good/Not enough low. I have a feeling, that im actually tuning sone stuff to low frequency wise while working on cans.

[dubdub]

I use 701, which is basically the same other than the detachable cable on 702.

I wouldn't use Sonarworks with the 701/702s. They already are very clinical phones, they are just a bit light / un-hyped in the lowend compared to other phones. The sonarworks correction curve is waaaaaaaaaaaay over the top.

I have had no lowend monitoring issues since I've gotten used to my 701s / 702s. I can even hear fairly subtle things like transformer emulations or slight cuts at 20 or 30hz.

That said, sometimes I wish they could have a bit more vibe in the lowend. A ~3db low shelf boost pretty much does the trick for that but I've not found an EQ solution that works inside Ableton AND on a Windows system level. Does anyone know anything that can do that? (the EQ needs to be the same in the DAW and when listening outside it, obviously - otherwise you are getting completely different mixes in the DAW and when listening back to the exported files). The annoying thing is that Sonarworks could technically do that but they only give you the premade EQ curves which, again, are way OTT.

[Monreal]

So far I've been personally very happy with the results, I'll send my stuff to a producer friends of mine and see what he thinks about the mixes. Depends on his answer Imay drop it or keep on using it.

[Lost to the Void]

Some that gives you a phantom centre, such as https://www.112db.com/plugins/redline/monitor/ (there are many alternatives) will give you a much tighter image, and it will make low end transients make more sense.

Other than that it`s just practice and referencing. I do a lot of my own composition and mixing on headphones (as mentioned many times, purely out of the preference of immersion) and the lows I find easy to stage now.

[P0607r0n]

Some that gives you a phantom centre, such as https://www.112db.com/plugins/redline/monitor/ (there are many alternatives) will give you a much tighter image, and it will make low end transients make more sense.

Im testing it since couple days/sessions (they give 60 days free Trial :0 ) and the tightening effect is nice and audible, still i don't think i couldn't work without it, but it's nice addition, for sure 60 days free is worth checking!

[ZenoSupreme]

yeah, had this problem too, but practicing helps. It is still better on my monitor system. I like the fact that the monitors are more far away and I can somehow keep more perspective on the whole mix (I have my monitors placed at around 2 meters away from the sweet spot).

[Masari]

Thanks all for your answers

Yeah i find it really difficult also, i think its partly down to not knowing my headphones well enough and being so used to hearing music through the monitors instead.

What issues are you having?

My issue is clear and simple : When i design a kick with my headphone, and then listen at it with my HS8, they are just sounding like crap even if i was pretty happy with it through headphones !

i will post an exemple later here

[dubdub]

Thanks all for your answers

Yeah i find it really difficult also, i think its partly down to not knowing my headphones well enough and being so used to hearing music through the monitors instead.

What issues are you having?

My issue is clear and simple : When i design a kick with my headphone, and then listen at it with my HS8, they are just sounding like crap even if i was pretty happy with it through headphones !

i will post an exemple later here

I really wouldn't trust HS8s for lowend, especially if it's a room without proper basstraps etc. ...

[Masari]

Thanks all for your answers

Yeah i find it really difficult also, i think its partly down to not knowing my headphones well enough and being so used to hearing music through the monitors instead.

What issues are you having?

My issue is clear and simple : When i design a kick with my headphone, and then listen at it with my HS8, they are just sounding like crap even if i was pretty happy with it through headphones !

i will post an exemple later here

I really wouldn't trust HS8s for lowend, especially if it's a room without proper basstraps etc. ...

Would u develop a bit buddy ?
because it s a terrible unthreated room, so unthreated that i moved my speakers to my parent s place even if i could use it only once in a while, and want to learn working with headphones instead

[Macca]

I might be wrong, but I think that purely making music/mixing in headphones takes a lot of practise and you’d still need to hear them on monitors. (I believe you don’t get correct stereo imaging in headphones)

What I tend to do is make the majority on the monitors, and use headphones to listen to the low end and do any precise eq stuff. Then test in the car, and slowly have a mental breakdown realising it sucks

[P0607r0n]

I might be wrong, but I think that purely making music/mixing in headphones takes a lot of practise and you’d still need to hear them on monitors. (I believe you don’t get correct stereo imaging in headphones)

What I tend to do is make the majority on the monitors, and use headphones to listen to the low end and do any precise eq stuff. Then test in the car, and slowly have a mental breakdown realising it sucks

I could never understand the whole "Test your Mix in your car" Thing, arent cars usually over bassy little cages?

Anyways... Doing better stereo imaging took me some time while working with the headphones ( scared to put things more on the sides, because it feels like its really extreme) but it's starting to work for me, but to be able to nail down that sub I think is more crucial for dance music.