Automation - what do you usually automate?

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
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Barfunkel
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Barfunkel »

No idea if that rant was aimed at me, but I don't think I even hinted at anything like that. I've been going to clubs for 20 years, DJ'd for a long time, played live gigs and stuff. I've never seen people going nuts over some small detail like automating some minor parameters. People go nuts when they hear a good track, with nice melodies/chords and/or nice rhythms and/or some really powerful sounds (like 909 hats or 303 acid lines). Arrangement is of course important too. Automating stuff in post-production is of lesser relevance. If you track sucks before the automation, it won't miraculously turn into a classic masterpiece when the reverb/panning/whatever changes a bit over time. You're free to disagree of course, it's a free world.
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Mono-xID »

Barfunkel wrote:No idea if that rant was aimed at me, but I don't think I even hinted at anything like that. I've been going to clubs for 20 years, DJ'd for a long time, played live gigs and stuff. I've never seen people going nuts over some small detail like automating some minor parameters. People go nuts when they hear a good track, with nice melodies/chords and/or nice rhythms and/or some really powerful sounds (like 909 hats or 303 acid lines). Arrangement is of course important too. Automating stuff in post-production is of lesser relevance. If you track sucks before the automation, it won't miraculously turn into a classic masterpiece when the reverb/panning/whatever changes a bit over time. You're free to disagree of course, it's a free world.
That's not the point mate. People go nuts to ITCHY Whoretits? as well. Plus there are musicians who doesn't give a hoofwankin' bunglecunt over making people go nuts. First and foremost you should make music for yourself. And if i think my music should have shitloads or subtle automations i couldn't care less what the audience want to hear. Imagine like painting a picture and you decide to paint a very small yellow point in the upper right corner. People might find it uninteresting and irrelevant but you wanted that yellow point to be exactly there because it's your fuckin picture.
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Alume »

I agree, besides a loop is just a loop.

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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Mattias »

Mono-xID wrote:
Barfunkel wrote:No idea if that rant was aimed at me, but I don't think I even hinted at anything like that. I've been going to clubs for 20 years, DJ'd for a long time, played live gigs and stuff. I've never seen people going nuts over some small detail like automating some minor parameters. People go nuts when they hear a good track, with nice melodies/chords and/or nice rhythms and/or some really powerful sounds (like 909 hats or 303 acid lines). Arrangement is of course important too. Automating stuff in post-production is of lesser relevance. If you track sucks before the automation, it won't miraculously turn into a classic masterpiece when the reverb/panning/whatever changes a bit over time. You're free to disagree of course, it's a free world.
That's not the point mate. People go nuts to . . as well. Plus there are musicians who doesn't give a hoofwankin' bunglecunt over making people go nuts. First and foremost you should make music for yourself. And if i think my music should have shitloads or subtle automations i couldn't care less what the audience want to hear. Imagine like painting a picture and you decide to paint a very small yellow point in the upper right corner. People might find it uninteresting and irrelevant but you wanted that yellow point to be exactly there because it's your fuckin picture.
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Barfunkel
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Barfunkel »

Alume wrote:I agree, besides a loop is just a loop.
My point was, if you want to simplify it, you better write a good loop before you do anything else. Hiding bad loops behind production tricks doesn't create great music. Naturally, it's your hobby (or a job) and you can do it however you want, I'm not a techno authority who can dictate things. I'm just worried about the future of techno a bit, because lots of tracks nowadays sound like the creator spent 90% of the time on production tricks instead of trying to write a good riff, or a rhythm or any other building block that I consider the backbone of quality techno.
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Alume »

I understand your point of view, I really do but I have to disagree with you man.

I've said it before and I am going to say it again. Techno=Techno

Its the end result that counts. Say you have the most perfect loop, the holy grail in techno history and future, what good will it be without post loop processes? Eventually, you do need to get a track out of it dont you?

And I think you cant hide anything with anything in techno and in all cases really, the truth will come out and that is either yes or no.

I've said this a lot on the forum as well, and, I am going to say it again. If by any chance you have lost faith in techno, the scene, the music, or the production processes people are having that problem lies with you.

Everyday, every hour incredible minds come up with incredible ideas that endlessly iterate and improve what we know as techno, you just need to know were to look.

Its like saying you don't enjoy a certain restaurant anymore, well fine by me but don't state that you worry about the future of food.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Progress is bad, everything should stay the same for ever.
Getting better at something is for pussies.

If anything, getting worse is the way to go.

Here are some tips, but also, fuck tips.

Just take loads of smack and pass out on your equipment, stick all your cable connctors up your ass and don't clean them, so they make bad contacts for that authentic sounds-like-really-shitty-old-gear-so-it-must-be-awesumz sound.

Desolder random components for extra crackle.

Get really fucking drunk on rubbing alcohol and then slash your monitor speaker cones with sharpened vintage spatulas for the everything-soundz-rawz-in-here-innit-bruv effect.

Don't sequence anything.

Sequencers are lame, and totally for dicks.

Just hit record on your wax cylinder recorder then play your synths with drum sticks with rubber vaginas gaffa taped on to the ends for extra weight.

Make sure they are used rubber vaginas, its more raw.

Develop (no, fuck develop, that's overproducing things, just shit it out immediately without thinking after snorking a line of polish amphetamines through your tear ducts) a really good, killer tune idea, and hum it and beatbox it (cos fuck synths, synths are too clean with their oscillators and shit) in to an old dictaphone with a cassette that has been re-recorded over since the early 80's, then piss on it, throw it in the tumble dryer for 2 hours and then send it to the pressing plant (they call this the Vatican shadow method).

Even better, just take an old Rob Hood record from 1926 before techno existed so its more authentic, and wank over it until nothing comes out but drops of pale slightly milky water. Let it dry, turn up to your gig, and when your set is due run around the dancefloor and mash that dried spunk covered record in to everyones faces shouting

"This is techno you fucking cunts, raw and original, why bother even listening to anything that came out after the first fish developed rudimentary lungs and crawled up on to the beach....
.
.
.
.
.
And that is my guide to automation..
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Mono-xID
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Mono-xID »

Lost to the Void wrote:Progress is bad, everything should stay the same for ever.
Getting better at something is for pussies.

If anything, getting worse is the way to go.

Here are some tips, but also, fuck tips.

Just take loads of smack and pass out on your equipment, stick all your cable connctors up your ass and don't clean them, so they make bad contacts for that authentic sounds-like-really-shitty-old-gear-so-it-must-be-awesumz sound.

Desolder random components for extra crackle.

Get really fucking drunk on rubbing alcohol and then slash your monitor speaker cones with sharpened vintage spatulas for the everything-soundz-rawz-in-here-innit-bruv effect.

Don't sequence anything.

Sequencers are lame, and totally for dicks.

Just hit record on your wax cylinder recorder then play your synths with drum sticks with rubber vaginas gaffa taped on to the ends for extra weight.

Make sure they are used rubber vaginas, its more raw.

Develop (no, fuck develop, that's overproducing things, just shit it out immediately without thinking after snorking a line of polish amphetamines through your tear ducts) a really good, killer tune idea, and hum it and beatbox it (cos fuck synths, synths are too clean with their oscillators and shit) in to an old dictaphone with a cassette that has been re-recorded over since the early 80's, then piss on it, throw it in the tumble dryer for 2 hours and then send it to the pressing plant (they call this the Vatican shadow method).

Even better, just take an old Rob Hood record from 1926 before techno existed so its more authentic, and wank over it until nothing comes out but drops of pale slightly milky water. Let it dry, turn up to your gig, and when your set is due run around the dancefloor and mash that dried come covered rcied in to everyones faces shouting

"This is techno you fucking cunts, raw and original, why bother even listening to anything that came out after the first fish deceloped rudimentary lungs and crawled up on to the beach....
.
.
.
.
.
And that is my guide to automation..
Seems you had a nice day... :?
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Alume
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Alume »

Though on Subsekt you are free to wash away your troubles, put it all out there, we are here to support evryone :ugeek:

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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Alume »

Seriously, I feel that rant though.

I dont really get the issue.


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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Tequila is the answer to everything.
If it cannot be answered by Tequila then it is not worth answering.
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by jordanneke »

Lost to the Void wrote:Tequila is the answer to everything.
If it cannot be answered by Tequila then it is not worth answering.
Whether or not I should attend my mandatory AA meeting as part of my plea bargaining.

But all jokes aside, I feel your rant.

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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by dubdub »

Trying to get back to the topic ( :) ), I've been wondering this for a while. Is there any way to "automate automation" in something like Ableton? I like doing kind of gentle variance curves that ebb and flow within a small range, but doing that for 50 parameters across the track is just fucking tedious. I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of LFO / subtle modulation on automation parameters, if that makes any sense?

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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Lost to the Void »

I'm not an alcoholic. Alcoholics need a drink.
I already have a drink.
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Lost to the Void »

dubdub wrote:Trying to get back to the topic ( :) ), I've been wondering this for a while. Is there any way to "automate automation" in something like Ableton? I like doing kind of gentle variance curves that ebb and flow within a small range, but doing that for 50 parameters across the track is just fucking tedious. I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of LFO / subtle modulation on automation parameters, if that makes any sense?
M4l lfo tool.
You'd need to put your instrument in to a rack, set up a macro with all your parameters sent to it, and then lfo that macro.
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by jordanneke »

dubdub wrote:Trying to get back to the topic ( :) ), I've been wondering this for a while. Is there any way to "automate automation" in something like Ableton? I like doing kind of gentle variance curves that ebb and flow within a small range, but doing that for 50 parameters across the track is just fucking tedious. I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of LFO / subtle modulation on automation parameters, if that makes any sense?
I often use the midi LFO as part of MAX for live, and then have another lfo automating the frq of the first. Fiddly, but works.

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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by dubdub »

Lost to the Void wrote:
dubdub wrote:Trying to get back to the topic ( :) ), I've been wondering this for a while. Is there any way to "automate automation" in something like Ableton? I like doing kind of gentle variance curves that ebb and flow within a small range, but doing that for 50 parameters across the track is just fucking tedious. I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of LFO / subtle modulation on automation parameters, if that makes any sense?
M4l lfo tool.
You'd need to put your instrument in to a rack, set up a macro with all your parameters sent to it, and then lfo that macro.
Cheers, i'll try that!

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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Lost to the Void »

jordanneke wrote:
dubdub wrote:Trying to get back to the topic ( :) ), I've been wondering this for a while. Is there any way to "automate automation" in something like Ableton? I like doing kind of gentle variance curves that ebb and flow within a small range, but doing that for 50 parameters across the track is just fucking tedious. I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of LFO / subtle modulation on automation parameters, if that makes any sense?
I often use the midi LFO as part of MAX for live, and then have another lfo automating the frq of the first. Fiddly, but works.
Never tried that, i'm gonna thoug.
Meta.
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Re: Automation - what do you usually automate?

Post by Alume »

You can have the midi lfo control external gear as well.

Kicks totally ass.


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