Recording/Playing Didgeridoo without headphones?!

[Esh]

Hello people,

Alright, I have been fucking around with didgeridoos for a while now and its got to the stage where I would really like to integrate them into my music by playing them through effects and etc.

I have read a lot of didgeridoo recording techniques but none really mention how you can record live whilst having the rest of the music playing. In other words without the need to use headphones. For example then you can play it live or in your studio and still be able to use the speakers.

youtu.be/KwqR34mdriM

Whether you like the tune or not is entirely irrelevant (I know this forum well http://www.subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1301)

I just think there is a lot to be gained by having the ability to directly play the didge without turning off the monitors and using headphones. Then being able to blend the Dry & Wet didge. Im not sure if this is possible, but from the video, there is this flat looking microphone thing (is it a contact mic?) which makes me believe it is doable. Especially when you think this video is pretty old now.

Does anybody have any experience or general know how into doing this?

[borg]

I only see the SM58, about the most used mic around... You mean the black rectangle thing? Looks like just a rest to me.
58s are so common on stage (not the studio!) because they're sturdy, can take a lot, are reliable and cheap. Actually, technically they sound like crap (hence why never used in the studio, except maybe for rap/beatbox), but they are also less likely to give you feedback problems compared to condensor mics (58s are dynamic). Condensor mics sound better, are (much) more expensive, but also more sensitive (=more chance of feedback). Of course, when dealing with mics on stage, eq'ing monitors is even more important.
An SM58 has a cardio polar pattern (least sensitive 'behind' the mic), the 58beta is hyper cardioid (least sensitive at the sides) which might be important according to monitor placement.
Nevermind the 'crap' comment. 99% of the live vocal mics are 58s, only really good vocalists (especially in jazz) might benefit from using something like KMS150 (but you don't wanna pay that mic).
Hope this helps a bit...

[Lost to the Void]

Ok, for a live situation then micing a didge you will expect to get some bleed through, even with a hard gate.

But for studio recording, 9 times out of 10 the recording would have been done isolated, ie foldback through headphones, recording dry in treated studio.

Why do you want to have your monitors on?
You should be able to set monitoring so you can hear your didge and the backing track in the headphones.

If not, then just record with the monitors on, but in that case I would isolate the end of the didge somehow so the mic recording is better, maybe make a box with foam in it, and poke the didge in to the box with the mic.

The mic used in that video is a standard SM58, whatever he is standing it on is probably just a non slip pad.

I would say something like an electrovoice RE20 would be better for recording a didge as it can take higher spl`s and sudden pressure changes much better than an SM58

Just have it pointing in to the end of the didge at a 45 degree angle roughly.

[Esh]

I only see the SM58, about the most used mic around... You mean the black rectangle thing? Looks like just a rest to me.

well clearly i don't know much about contact mics.

Ok, for a live situation then micing a didge you will expect to get some bleed through, even with a hard gate.

But for studio recording, 9 times out of 10 the recording would have been done isolated, ie foldback through headphones, recording dry in treated studio

Why do you want to have your monitors on?
You should be able to set monitoring so you can hear your didge and the backing track in the headphones.

More for the fact that if you can do it live, so why cant you do it in the studio. You can just pick something straight up and do it rather than going through headphones. I like the idea of building a box for it, but maybe more of a shield maybe and have that screening it from the monitors. I get the feeling a box might have a big impact on the sound recorded??

[Lost to the Void]

I only see the SM58, about the most used mic around... You mean the black rectangle thing? Looks like just a rest to me.

well clearly i don't know much about contact mics.

Ok, for a live situation then micing a didge you will expect to get some bleed through, even with a hard gate.

But for studio recording, 9 times out of 10 the recording would have been done isolated, ie foldback through headphones, recording dry in treated studio

Why do you want to have your monitors on?
You should be able to set monitoring so you can hear your didge and the backing track in the headphones.

More for the fact that if you can do it live, so why cant you do it in the studio. You can just pick something straight up and do it rather than going through headphones. I like the idea of building a box for it, but maybe more of a shield maybe and have that screening it from the monitors. I get the feeling a box might have a big impact on the sound recorded??

Of course you can do it in the studio as you would live.
But for the same reason that vocals can be done in the studio as live, but are generally not, vocals are recorded separately so the quality is better.
Same with the didge.

What is so difficult about setting up recording with headphone monitoring?
I've been doing it all the way through my album recording process, for all the vocals, the guitars and some percussion, it's easy to do, unless you have some kind of monitoring issues?

By box, I mean basically making some kind of reflection protector.
So, take a reasonable sized cardboard box, cut out one side, punch a hole in the opposite side for the didge, line the box with sound damping foam. So the box is still open but the end of the didge is vaguely isolated from the monitor sound and room reflections that will come with it.

[Esh]

I only see the SM58, about the most used mic around... You mean the black rectangle thing? Looks like just a rest to me.

well clearly i don't know much about contact mics.

Ok, for a live situation then micing a didge you will expect to get some bleed through, even with a hard gate.

But for studio recording, 9 times out of 10 the recording would have been done isolated, ie foldback through headphones, recording dry in treated studio

Why do you want to have your monitors on?
You should be able to set monitoring so you can hear your didge and the backing track in the headphones.

More for the fact that if you can do it live, so why cant you do it in the studio. You can just pick something straight up and do it rather than going through headphones. I like the idea of building a box for it, but maybe more of a shield maybe and have that screening it from the monitors. I get the feeling a box might have a big impact on the sound recorded??

Of course you can do it in the studio as you would live.
But for the same reason that vocals can be done in the studio as live, but are generally not, vocals are recorded separately so the quality is better.
Same with the didge.

What is so difficult about setting up recording with headphone monitoring?
I've been doing it all the way through my album recording process, for all the vocals, the guitars and some percussion, it's easy to do, unless you have some kind of monitoring issues?

By box, I mean basically making some kind of reflection protector.
So, take a reasonable sized cardboard box, cut out one side, punch a hole in the opposite side for the didge, line the box with sound damping foam. So the box is still open but the end of the didge is vaguely isolated from the monitor sound and room reflections that will come with it.

It is not difficult to do it with headphones. But just out of interest, if it is possible, I might want to give it a shot. Maybe the downsides are not worth the effort in the end. Im sure the reasons for it being the "the standard way" of doing things are valid. However that shouldn't stop one from exploring right?

The open box sounds better actually, as in my head didge needs a bit of air to sound good so treating it as a shield sounds good.

I read up a little bit about contact microphones. What do you think the effect of one would if you attach it to a didge?

[Lost to the Void]

I don't think a contact mic on a didge would be all that interesting really,but it's worth a try.
With contact mics, things that you think will be interesting rarely are, and the mundane ends up being amazing. It might be more interesting to use the didge to resonate something and then put the contact mic on that thing, like the side of a washing machine.

The other issue with recording a didge in a small studio is that it is an instrument that can't really be played quietly, so you will have to turn your monitors up, increasing mic bleed etc.

[Esh]

The other issue with recording a didge in a small studio is that it is an instrument that can't really be played quietly, so you will have to turn your monitors up, increasing mic bleed etc.

Really good point

[Lost to the Void]

Doing a little bit of research, the square thing the guy in the vid you linked is resting his didge on, is a tile, apparently.

The best way to record a didge (which is why I suggested a 45 degree angle for the mic) is to record some of the direct sound and some reflective.
Recording engineers get didge players to rest their didge on a tile so the sound reflects more clearly, then you can place your mic appropriately, slightly over the end and also pointing at the tile.
Get yourself a nice big bathroom tile, go to a tile shop and ask for seconds or throwaways.

It`s also suggested you dual mic, and either record the mouth end of the didge as well, to get more of the "throat" characteristics, so have another mic close to your mouth and the playing end of the didge, OR have a mic pointing at the middle of the didge, a little further back, to record the full body resonance as well as the end.

If you have a tiled bathroom, try recording in there too, might be interesting.