Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
Alume
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Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Alume »

Hey guys,

A few weeks back I had a conversation with Luigi regarding my the stereo image of my amients/pads.

Since then I've been doing some research and feel like I still know to little to be making any purchases(plugins etc). I've been experimenting with some youtube tutorials in ableton but I'm actually not so sure of what I am doing is the right thing.

For expample: Your kick and sub sit in the midde, your percs are in place with an occasional pan, what do you do with your pad coming from your monosynth, you add reverb yes but still its not resulting in the wide ambience that you are intending. So what do you do? you could add some delays, but that would change the whole sound completely.

Any tips,plugins, tricks, facts... anything? :roll:

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Wiu
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Wiu »

Download Voxengo's (free) MSED and boost the Side Gain? I tend to use MSED for the reverse really. If something is way to wide and really badly converting when I'm checking the mono mix, I'll pull the Side Gain back a bit or increase the gain on the Mid Gain. Hell sometimes a bit of both! If the reverb you're using has a width or size setting, push that up a bit until you get what you're after? I think MeldaProductions Free Effects Bundle has a stereo tool plugin included and then there's Brainworx's free bx solo too. That's 3 freebies you can try. I'm sure the more experienced producers will be able to offer some other options and more advice.

http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/

http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/ ... ectsBundle

http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_solo
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

Alume
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Alume »

Wow Wiu! Thanks a lot:)))) will check them out as soon as Im back in the "studio".

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Mono-xID
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Mono-xID »

Try M/S processing on pads and textures.
http://soundcloud.com/monoxid

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Lost to the Void »

Mid side does not do anything on a mono signal. So on a pad from a mono synth, nothing will happen.
You have to generate stereo information before reaching the mid/side process to then separate the mono from the stereo.

So prior to this you would need to use chorus or micro delay.

For pads, nice lush wide pads, using a mono synth is using the wrong tool for the job, unless it has some kind of unison stereo out or something.
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Alume
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Alume »

Lost to the Void wrote:Mid side does not do anything on a mono signal. So on a pad from a mono synth, nothing will happen.
You have to generate stereo information before reaching the mid/side process to then separate the mono from the stereo.

So prior to this you would need to use chorus or micro delay.

For pads, nice lush wide pads, using a mono synth is using the wrong tool for the job, unless it has some kind of unison stereo out or something.
Your right, but I do not have an other synth. Plus it gives me way more inspiration tweaking an actual synth than automating ableton synths with my mouse. But its not that big of a deal right? Certainly with my level of production.

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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Lost to the Void »

Then you're choices involve faking it.

Either use reverb, then compression to "bond" the verb to the sound, then use mid side to turn down the mono, or use some chorus, micro delay, or old Skool, double track it. Record 2 runs, pan em wide right and left, group em, and then process.
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Wiu
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Wiu »

Could you do what The Void suggested and double track it (make a copy of the file and paste it on a separate channel and the pan one to the left and one to the right) but then group the tracks? Or would Ableton make the group mono too? If not maybe just send it to a stereo send channel? Logic 8 used to let you insert stereo effects on mono channels which was always handy. Being an Ableton noob, maybe there's a way to do it in Ableton too?
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Lost to the Void »

Cope and past the file would just duplicate it, yo mould the get a very interesting stereo image unless you introduce channel delay.

I was suggesting true double track.
Record the synth twice, if it is analog then the non linearities will make for a nice stereo image when grouped and panned.

It's extremely common in heavy metal, record the same guitar part twice, hard pan left and right.

You can place stereo effects in mono channels in ableton, that was my original suggestion, chorus or micro delay.
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GLinet
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by GLinet »

This works, so long as you don't over-do it.

http://www.voxengo.com/product/stereotouch/

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Wiu
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Wiu »

Lost to the Void wrote:Record the synth twice, if it is analog then the non linearities will make for a nice stereo image when grouped and panned.
Interesting. I've heard of that being done on vocals and guitars, but not on a synth line. I'm going to have to give that a try at some point!
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

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Mono-xID
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Mono-xID »

Lost to the Void wrote:Mid side does not do anything on a mono signal. So on a pad from a mono synth, nothing will happen.
Oh didn't read that he uses a mono synth so you're in the right here of course.
http://soundcloud.com/monoxid

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CountingToes
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by CountingToes »

i use the roland dimension D and the boss ce1 UAD plugs, I've found they're all i need for width, if you have a UAD card try them, you won't be disappointed

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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by LuigiTozzii »

I'm happy Alume opened this discussion cause I have a question about stereo enhancing too =)
I've been using the very simple Stereo Enhancer from Fruity Loops on my pc and in fact it's veyr usefull andworking very good for me...also it's very fast and no cpu using. Now this is not compatible with Mac and and I'm going mad with this....does anyone use a similar plugin?
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Mono-xID
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Mono-xID »

Brainworx Control has a stereo width control. Sonalksis Stereo tools as well. (These are the ones i use for that purpose).
http://soundcloud.com/monoxid

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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Lost to the Void »

GLinet wrote:This works, so long as you don't over-do it.

http://www.voxengo.com/product/stereotouch/

Probably a micro delay plugin, they they mid-side, but of course mid side doesn't work mono. Worth a try.
There is also stillwell cmx.
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Lost to the Void »

Mono-xID wrote:Brainworx Control has a stereo width control. Sonalksis Stereo tools as well. (These are the ones i use for that purpose).
Brainworx is mid-side, exactly the same as utility tool in ableton, which will do the same.

Not sure about sonalksis, but I think it also mid-side
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by Lost to the Void »

There are a lot of stereo tools out there, but generally they either introduce micro delay or fuck with phase, both of which can introduce mix problems, most of the time, those problems are not troublesome.
To do it complete clean and mono compatible, you need to go Mathew Lane DrMS or Nugen Stereoizer.
Both able to widen even a mono image, and yet remain mono compatible. But not cheap.
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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by LuigiTozzii »

great Void, I'll check them right now!

edit: Ok the one from Matthew Lane is incredible!!

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Re: Stereo Imaging & Stereo Enhancement Tools

Post by msl »

Lost to the Void wrote:Record the synth twice, if it is analog then the non linearities will make for a nice stereo image when grouped and panned.

This is really the best method if your recording hardware, same for vocals you record multiple takes and pan them around.

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