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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:05 pm 
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well, you know it was fun,
but no more than a style exercise.

on the other hand, I won't lie,
it puts a big grin on your face when you are making something like this.
Of course you'll never get 100% there,
and it sure as fuck isn't reinventing the wheel,
but yeah, the sub in this case took us like 20 minutes just following the advice of an old subsekt topic,
and abusing the EQ on my Midas mixer... :)

long live subsekt I guess... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Give me a link to that topic, i'll do one, too. I like little excercises and maybe my pro2 will be a great subgenerator..

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:04 pm 
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god, now you're asking too much of my humble Korsakov soky brain...
especially at this time of the night...

I'm off to bed now, might do a little search tomorrow, but in the mean time,
I suggest you do a google on "Maurizio bass", just like me and Pedro did back then...

whatever you do though, be gentle on the blue Chimay's ! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:54 am 
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LOL ... Google "Maurizio Bass" showed me this: http://www.subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3005 ;-) ..i fogot shortly about the old internet wisdom 'just fucking google it'. Cool, so i've got a little challenge for the weekend. I also googled blue Chimay, and maan, 9% alc? Bing bong.

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Root wrote:
LOL ... Google "Maurizio Bass" showed me this: http://www.subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3005 ;-) ..i fogot shortly about the old internet wisdom 'just fucking google it'. Cool, so i've got a little challenge for the weekend. I also googled blue Chimay, and maan, 9% alc? Bing bong.


pfff, Rochefort 10 is like 11° or something...
First time I drank that, my best friend introduced that shit to me,
and in one single afternoon, we drank 5x Rochefort 8 (about 9,5°) and 2x Rochefort 10,
we then went to play a game of petanque in an old abandoned train station,
while drinking a bottle of red wine.
I can assure you I don't think I was ever more drunk than that afternoon/evening,
and my after-thirst was killing me all night... :lol:

anyway,
the most valuable tip we had from this topic was done by the wonderful s-tek,
who unfortunately hasn't been around these parts for years,
but who has the funniest youtube video's with jam sessions him and a friend of him did...

to quote him :

Quote:
its easier than you all think about it =)

just record a deep down sine or pulse wave and filter it to hell. the key is to use more than one filter (best way with much more resonance and bandpass) in a cascade behind the sine wave


as far as I remember,
we literally started out with Operator, started with a sine, added some extra harmonics,
and then ran it through my Midas EQ a few times, probably adding a bit of mild saturation once in a while...
Obviously the results weren't 100% there, but that doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things...

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Hades wrote:
Amøbe wrote:




love the pad in the background from the start, why not try to bring that one a bit more to the foreground ?
It's by far one of the best parts in this track !!

Also like the thunderstorm/rain kind of sound, but I'm not so sure if the reverb on it needs to be that much.

That synth you bring in from around 1:00...
Please no, it sounds so cheesy,
the riff, the cliché sound,...
Not doing the track any justice at the moment...

That high synth... now there's a sound to bring out more in this track, and which sounds so much better than the main synth now.

Also, general thing : your mix sounds really tiresome to my ears. There's like too much stuff going on at the same time, or maybe just reverb tails that are far too long,
but I just checked with headphones and it's just as tiresome on my headphones...

the percussion sound you bring in at around 3:56 (sounds like a mixture of Peruvian flute players and some toms :D ) :
sounds nice, but could do with better transients and just more presence in the mix in general.

Also, what's up with your sub sounding as if it's trying to do some snare roll ???? ;)
A sub needs to be a pulse, needs to add groove, but make the notes sound too long and the whole mix will be far too bass heavy...
Try making a 2 note sub clip, and then add more or add changes if you think they will work.
Now there's a sub soup going on, and it's not working at all...

The hihats at the start of your track need more sting and more presence.
Not sure what to think about you hihats later on in the track.
Too much frequency content, but I like what you tried to do.
(layered ?? or used something like a frequency shifter or some other FX that adds extra harmonic content ??)

And I think you were lazy on the pannning...

In general, I think this track had by far a lot more original elements going on than the last few tracks I just listened to,
but, my god, just do something to that sub trying to do a snare roll... it's just torture to your ears !! ;) ;)


Once again - your feedback is amazing!! Thanks a lot - and I really needed a couple of fresh critical ears.

So I went back to it - replaced the melody (the other set of ears that heard it - my girlfriend's - didn't like that part either :D ) and made it with another synth. Then I tried to adjust some of the field recordings so they were allowed to sound more close to their post-processing self - I also tried to do something about the hi-hats, I must admit I did it a bit blindfolded, but I think they sound better now!

I think that there might still be a few too many elements, but I'm not sure where to cut if that's the case right now...

Oh yeah and the sub sounded like shit - changed the pattern a lot!

So if anyone would care to take a listen to this, there's a danish guy sitting in his underwear right now that will be very pleased <3

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Amobe, nice progression in v2! i think it's way better. The sub doesn't eat everything anymore.. And well done removing that melodyleadsynth, it wasn't pleasing the track. now, when everything is more subtle it has more atmosphere. That percussive part from 3:56 comes a bit late in the arrangement. That sounds more like a "peak" to me. Maybe kill it after the break around 5:00, so the track can calm down a bit till the end.. Decent track!

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Root wrote:
Amobe, nice progression in v2! i think it's way better. The sub doesn't eat everything anymore.. And well done removing that melodyleadsynth, it wasn't pleasing the track. now, when everything is more subtle it has more atmosphere. That percussive part from 3:56 comes a bit late in the arrangement. That sounds more like a "peak" to me. Maybe kill it after the break around 5:00, so the track can calm down a bit till the end.. Decent track!


Thanks a lot for the fast feedback :) Just a question - do you think that I should move the part at 3:56 forward in the track or just leave it out? I quite like the riff, though :D

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:59 pm 
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@Amobe: no no, leave it there. Just kill that second part after the second break. I like the part, too! Maybe you could adumbrate it before 3:56, like just some hints around 3:00 before the first break. So it can do it's work from 3:56, but isn't completely new and after the last break the track can come to an end.




Soo... that's where the maurizio dubsubthread took me. As there suddenly was a nice atmo and depth in my room, i had to get my trumpet that was lying around for too long and play some notes :D ...It was fun to do, the arrangement is not finished, but i got bored for today, hehe.

https://soundcloud.com/rootffm/09-004-dub/s-OOdMD

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:21 pm 
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Root wrote:
@Amobe: no no, leave it there. Just kill that second part after the second break. I like the part, too! Maybe you could adumbrate it before 3:56, like just some hints around 3:00 before the first break. So it can do it's work from 3:56, but isn't completely new and after the last break the track can come to an end.




Soo... that's where the maurizio dubsubthread took me. As there suddenly was a nice atmo and depth in my room, i had to get my trumpet that was lying around for too long and play some notes :D ...It was fun to do, the arrangement is not finished, but i got bored for today, hehe.

https://soundcloud.com/rootffm/09-004-dub/s-OOdMD


Alright so I tried to follow your tips - and I think it works better in a shortened version like this :)

Also that dub track is really well done! What did you use for the bass? (Also I'm a sucker for sad trumpet sounds!)

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:01 pm 
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well, i didn't meant to kill the whole last part :D ..i only meant that peaktime like percussion part IN it. So that after the last break (in v2) the track can cool down a bit. But yep, even like you did it it's better!

The bass in my dubtechno tryout comes from my dsi pro2 plus that mentioned tricks in the thread about maurizio dubbass. I guess it's kinda good for this, just because it has some very warm basic sound.

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:08 am 
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Amøbe wrote:
Once again - your feedback is amazing!! Thanks a lot - and I really needed a couple of fresh critical ears.

So I went back to it - replaced the melody (the other set of ears that heard it - my girlfriend's - didn't like that part either :D ) and made it with another synth. Then I tried to adjust some of the field recordings so they were allowed to sound more close to their post-processing self - I also tried to do something about the hi-hats, I must admit I did it a bit blindfolded, but I think they sound better now!

I think that there might still be a few too many elements, but I'm not sure where to cut if that's the case right now...

Oh yeah and the sub sounded like shit - changed the pattern a lot!

So if anyone would care to take a listen to this, there's a danish guy sitting in his underwear right now that will be very pleased <3


sorry for the late reply but the mental image in my head of a Danish boy in his underwear aroused me so much it took me until now to be done wanking... rrrrrr.... :mrgreen:
(my dick somehow looks pretty purple by now ! do you shave your ass crack ?? please tell me you don't, I prefer hairy manly butts)


anyway...
this is far better than your last version.
that sub is perfect and adds tons of groove now.
you deserve a cookie !

Your mix is still a bit bass heavy, perhaps you need to change your boxershorts or something ? :D

And I think the mix still could do with a little more clarity in general,
I think a lot comes from 2 things :
1. field recording of a thunderstorm, so the white noisy stuff all over is probably rain. Right now you can't really hear it as rain, so apart from noise it doesn't really add much. Try to tame that down. Comparing to version 1, it's already far better, but it's still too much constant noise without any real function/advantage. And somehow the noise is more obvious in this mix, probably because the mix is improved so much the flaws stand out more.
2. too much reverb tails.

I really like the new lead synth you put in there,
you can hear it the 1st time at 0:59,
but right now it's simply too far back in the mix.
Too much reverb, plus I would suggest EQ'ing the reverb tail. It's a lead, so at least cut out a serious part of the low end of the tail.

Your hihats could definitely do with a bit more presence in the mix.

I don't like what you did with that pad sound (or did you use another sound ?) at 2:00,
that pitch out of tune thing gives it a cheapish old ghost film FX, but I don't think it fits this track.
But this is just my personal opinion, not a real critical issue.
If you want to leave that in, I would bring it in in a more subtle way, (make the pitch modulation less extreme)
or try and put it in right after a break sets in or something.

I quite like the contrast you introduce after 3:27, I really do.
The more digital sounding distorted sounds are a nice contrast for the nice and mellow stuff you used before.
But I think your arrangement needs more work for it to work better.
Right now it all feels too drastic and as if it all comes in in like 3 seconds time or something.

all in all, definitely a serious improvement on v1 !!

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:27 am 
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Root wrote:
Soo... that's where the maurizio dubsubthread took me. As there suddenly was a nice atmo and depth in my room, i had to get my trumpet that was lying around for too long and play some notes :D ...It was fun to do, the arrangement is not finished, but i got bored for today, hehe.

https://soundcloud.com/rootffm/09-004-dub/s-OOdMD


I like it a lot atmosphere-wise, really love it,
but damn that mix is still quite muddy.

Question : did you use the GS201 plugin in this project at all ?
I recently worked on a mix from someone which had it as a "conditio sine qua non" element,
(lets' say I didn't feel up to wasting hours trying to replace it with some other delay, and the mix needed the sort of tape delay effect)
and though I had used it before a few years earlier,
I was amazed at how impossible it is to kill the noise properly.
It was getting on my nerves like crazy.

Also, I had to turn your track up loud and I was still barely hearing the details.
All the lovely dubbyness and atmosphere, sure, but that trumpet was so much in the back...
Which is a crying shame because it's perfect for this track.
That riff you play at 2:46, I would try to play a few notes a bit longer at the end of the riff,
and well, try and make them sound more legato (though, yeah, I know, it's a trumpet)

And those open hats or rides or whatever at 1:20 :
did you record a real drummer and put him somewhere down the valley while attaching the mic to a pigeon and making it fly around the top of a mountain ? ;)

the hihat pattern could also do with more variety, it gets a bit too repetitive when you're halfway.

lovely atmosphere in general, but still needs quite some work.

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:42 am 
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Amøbe wrote:
Alright so I tried to follow your tips - and I think it works better in a shortened version like this :)

Also that dub track is really well done! What did you use for the bass? (Also I'm a sucker for sad trumpet sounds!)


arrangement is already better though I do think this kind of atmospheric track would do better if you introduce things slower and make the track a bit longer.
Contrary to mr wortel ( ;) ), I didn't have the feeling the last part of your track in v2 was too much, au contraire,
I think it was a perfect way to gently roll out of the track.

the pitch modulation works better in this version, but it still sounds too extreme.
Even Bestyrelse of Maple Leaf Country generally has their pitch modulation more subtle...
Listening to it now, and hearing it more clearly in this mix, I think it would already work a lot better if you would not use the pitch modulation on the low notes,
or at least almost kill it on the low notes. In my opinion (which is hardly worth more than my sexy ass, if I might say so myself),
proper pitch modulation usually works better on higher notes than on lower notes.

the white noise/rain is also a lot better now btw !
Though I would still try to take it out a bit more once in a while.

Lead still needs to be more upfront if you ask me. Still the same (too much) reverb as v2.

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Hades wrote:
Root wrote:
Soo... that's where the maurizio dubsubthread took me. As there suddenly was a nice atmo and depth in my room, i had to get my trumpet that was lying around for too long and play some notes :D ...It was fun to do, the arrangement is not finished, but i got bored for today, hehe.

https://soundcloud.com/rootffm/09-004-dub/s-OOdMD


I like it a lot atmosphere-wise, really love it,
but damn that mix is still quite muddy.

Question : did you use the GS201 plugin in this project at all ?
I recently worked on a mix from someone which had it as a "conditio sine qua non" element,
(lets' say I didn't feel up to wasting hours trying to replace it with some other delay, and the mix needed the sort of tape delay effect)
and though I had used it before a few years earlier,
I was amazed at how impossible it is to kill the noise properly.
It was getting on my nerves like crazy.

Also, I had to turn your track up loud and I was still barely hearing the details.
All the lovely dubbyness and atmosphere, sure, but that trumpet was so much in the back...
Which is a crying shame because it's perfect for this track.
That riff you play at 2:46, I would try to play a few notes a bit longer at the end of the riff,
and well, try and make them sound more legato (though, yeah, I know, it's a trumpet)

And those open hats or rides or whatever at 1:20 :
did you record a real drummer and put him somewhere down the valley while attaching the mic to a pigeon and making it fly around the top of a mountain ? ;)

the hihat pattern could also do with more variety, it gets a bit too repetitive when you're halfway.

lovely atmosphere in general, but still needs quite some work.



Haha, great feedback, thanks!! So, i guess i tried to do a track in that 90's style, with a lot of noise, mumble and no clean production. In some Maurizio tracks the hihats are barely noticeable, because they are so far in the background ;). Now I tried do clean everything up, lowered the noise (what is just a sample, my delay is echoboy with no noise itself) and arranged a bit more. Even the pigeon i managed to catch and record the open hihat a bit more nearby (not very much, but i hope it's better). Here you go:

https://soundcloud.com/rootffm/09-004-dub_mix/s-l5TJN


I landed with the track where i didn't want to go. That happens so often to me, I start a track with something more driving in my mind and in the end it's something with atosphere and depth. I found it very hard to have the kick sitting right. It comes from my vermona drm1, what is a nice machine, but that analogue every kick sounds different because of waveforms thing is not easy to handle in a mix. I already thought about selling it, but i'm hesitating, because it could be me, not the machine, that is not able to get punchy kicks out of it. ;D

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Root wrote:
I landed with the track where i didn't want to go. That happens so often to me, I start a track with something more driving in my mind and in the end it's something with atosphere and depth. I found it very hard to have the kick sitting right. It comes from my vermona drm1, what is a nice machine, but that analogue every kick sounds different because of waveforms thing is not easy to handle in a mix. I already thought about selling it, but i'm hesitating, because it could be me, not the machine, that is not able to get punchy kicks out of it. ;D


I can feel your pain. Also happens to me :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Root wrote:
Haha, great feedback, thanks!! So, i guess i tried to do a track in that 90's style, with a lot of noise, mumble and no clean production. In some Maurizio tracks the hihats are barely noticeable, because they are so far in the background ;). Now I tried do clean everything up, lowered the noise (what is just a sample, my delay is echoboy with no noise itself) and arranged a bit more. Even the pigeon i managed to catch and record the open hihat a bit more nearby (not very much, but i hope it's better). Here you go:

https://soundcloud.com/rootffm/09-004-dub_mix/s-l5TJN


I landed with the track where i didn't want to go. That happens so often to me, I start a track with something more driving in my mind and in the end it's something with atosphere and depth. I found it very hard to have the kick sitting right. It comes from my vermona drm1, what is a nice machine, but that analogue every kick sounds different because of waveforms thing is not easy to handle in a mix. I already thought about selling it, but i'm hesitating, because it could be me, not the machine, that is not able to get punchy kicks out of it. ;D


I totally understand what you mean with that 90's style,
but their mixes sounded a lot more clear/transparent than your previous version.
I agree some of the hihats on Maurizio's tracks seemed as if they were hardly there, but they were clearly there.
That was just the key thing to all those Basic Channel tracks in general :
extremely few elements, but all of them had their exact location in the mix and were doing just that.

Your pigeon is still not doing it's job very well.
Might I suggest a total change of hihats and

Image

some times drastic changes are for the best ! ;)

in general, I think you cleared up this mix a LOT, but it's made certain elements too dry/clear in the process,
like now your trumpet almost totally lots it's charm (or at least to me),
and your snare/clap-ish sound sounds too dry as well.
You just cleared up the mix so much you lost half of it's atmosphere... :)

btw, if you do decide to sell your vermona, do contact me,
I might be interested... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:04 am 
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Amøbe wrote:

Alright so I tried to follow your tips - and I think it works better in a shortened version like this :)


Just listening through earbuds, so can't comment on the mix. I was enjoying the track until the out of tune pad came in. I can totally see what you were going for, but it feels a bit unearnt in the arrangement. Everything is so nice until then and then, bang, that weird noise out of nowhere. If you could play an in tune version of that a bit and then make it sound wrong (maybe through a breakdown?) more slowly it could totally work.

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Root wrote:




https://soundcloud.com/rootffm/09-004-dub_mix/s-l5TJN


I landed with the track where i didn't want to go. That happens so often to me, I start a track with something more driving in my mind and in the end it's something with atosphere and depth. I found it very hard to have the kick sitting right. It comes from my vermona drm1, what is a nice machine, but that analogue every kick sounds different because of waveforms thing is not easy to handle in a mix. I already thought about selling it, but i'm hesitating, because it could be me, not the machine, that is not able to get punchy kicks out of it. ;D


The bass just doesn't sit right at all for some reason. It sounds almost out of tune. I can't put my finger on it, but for the last note of the sequence is too late, and takes away from the dub vibe.

With all dub, I should be able to nod my head to the bass, and I can't with the pattern you have going. Maybe try shifting the last note forward, or cutting the length so it's more quantized.

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 Post subject: Re: >>>> Post A Clip Of What You Are Working On <<<<<
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Amøbe wrote:
Root wrote:
Amobe, nice progression in v2! i think it's way better. The sub doesn't eat everything anymore.. And well done removing that melodyleadsynth, it wasn't pleasing the track. now, when everything is more subtle it has more atmosphere. That percussive part from 3:56 comes a bit late in the arrangement. That sounds more like a "peak" to me. Maybe kill it after the break around 5:00, so the track can calm down a bit till the end.. Decent track!


Thanks a lot for the fast feedback :) Just a question - do you think that I should move the part at 3:56 forward in the track or just leave it out? I quite like the riff, though :D



Man, it sounds fine to me. I like the off-tune bits too.

I just really don't like that bass stab, at all. It's mixed really high and it's just 'there', it doesn't evolve at all. But it's probably just my taste. If no-one else minds.

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